A Message From Aero Leather USA

[Fardad]

To all those defending Mark;

I just returned from 3 active duty tours in November 2011 and ordered my first Aero from Mark in January 2012, a treat to myself, fully paid at $924.00. I was told by Mark that the Aero factory was no longer backlogged and would have my jacket ready by March 2012. Notice my surprise when I received notice of his closing and the Aero company e-mail that my jacket order had not been placed. Fraud is fraud. If you want to defend Mark please send me $924.00 and I will jump on your bandwagon. Until then he has acted dishonestly and does not deserve the kind words offered here. I understand someone having personnel issues and business issues but blatant dishonesty does not have an excuse…

I feel absolutely sick in the stomach right now. No one has contacted me about my Sept'2011(paid-in-full) order. I wrote an email (as composed as I could possibly be) to all factions of "Aero" and I'm currently waiting for a response.

$954.10....... (Gawd, I feel like vomiting).

 

[2jakes]

Federal Trade Commission - www.ftc.gov
Direct Marketing Association - www.the-dma.org
Local U.S. Postal Service - Consumer Protection Agency
Business Guide To FTC's Rule -

 

[jimmer_5]

I'm not trying to be condescending, not sure how one has a "tone" online but it probably has more to do with how you're reading it than with what I wrote (been known to happen here). It's just crazy to me the extent of this fraud going back years and all the while the guy was getting rave reviews here, no one had anything bad to say about him and for years he is stringing dozens of buyers along, it seems like someone would've been here raising a stink over it. I'm just amazed the guy pulled it off, he must've found the most patient group of people to rip off.

A year wait for an Aero seems really long, I thought it was six months tops, even if it was a year I'm reading people waiting nearly 3 years in some cases. It's amazing no one came here to complain about it, the guy must be a real manipulator to get people to commit that level of trust in him to wait years for a very pricey jacket.

It was just my opinion that your statement came off harsh. I must have read you wrong, and you have my apologies.

It sounds crazy, but if you had worked with Mark before, you would never have believed that he would ever do something like this. I purchased my first Aero through him, and despite the long wait, the transaction went just about perfect. Mark answered all my questions promptly and with the utmost courtesy. If you don't get it, it's probably because you didn't have the chance to do business with him previous to all this.

 

[dr.velociraptor]

It was just my opinion that your statement came off harsh. I must have read you wrong, and you have my apologies.

It sounds crazy, but if you had worked with Mark before, you would never have believed that he would ever do something like this. I purchased my first Aero through him, and despite the long wait, the transaction went just about perfect. Mark answered all my questions promptly and with the utmost courtesy. If you don't get it, it's probably because you didn't have the chance to do business with him previous to all this.

I dealt with Mark briefly over eBay but was lucky enough to not lose any money. He had stellar feedback and a good reputation here and that is why he had people willing to wait years, plus once you're past two months you have is no recourse and waiting and hoping is the only thing you can do. My other post wasn't meant to be harsh, I'm legitimately amazed so many people were defrauded and there was not even really a peep about it even though it went on for years.

But I'm wondering if we look back on previous posts if people did comment on the wait and delays they were experiencing and got talked off the ledge because of his reputation?

Who knows what happened but the extent of the fraud makes it all but certain people aren't getting refunds.

 

[Flicka]

Stupid question, but what are the US laws on insolvency? Here when someone is suspected of being insolvent, anyone with a claim can file an appeal for bankruptcy. If the court then finds that the person or company in question is insolvent, it appoints a lawyer to sort out the mess. The persons involved are no longer able to dispose of their assets and are legally incompetant to enter into business agreements. There are very strict rules about the order in which various claimants are paid off and it's the job of the lawyer to make sure that these are observed so that no one gets preferential treatment, as well as figuring out how much money there is. Surely you guys have some sort of similar system?

 

[cloudylemonade]

OUR OFFER TO THOSE WHO HAVE PAID IN FULL FOR A JACKET FROM MARK MOYE

Although we have no legal responsibility to help, we have no intention to leave any customer to deal with this their your own.
We will offer you a 20% discount off any Aero purchases that you might make in the future, jacket, denim jeans, footwear, tweed or knitwear, books… in fact anything on our site, new or used until we both agree that any perceived obligation had been more than fulfilled. From then on the customer will go back to regular prices but would always get preferential treatment whenever this was possible. That said everyone dealing with the factory gets the very best service we can offer.

This offer is made without prejudice and should in no way be considered as any form of admission that we have any legal responsibility, in any way, to clear up the mess made by Mark Moye trading as AeroLeatherUSA.
This is a ‘one of a kind’ offer made to customers of Mark Moye's who have paid in full for a jacket they've not received.

Some other customers may have already been made the same, similar or amended offers. The offer cannot or will not have any bearing on any offer we may make, or have already made, to any other customers of Mark Moye.

Meanwhile I urge every one of you to make every effort through any means at your disposal to get a refund from Mark Moye....his firm took your money, not our firm, he's got all of your money, and we never received a penny of it.
If you do get a part or full refund this will not affect the offer above, you deserve to keep any money you might manage to claw back and even if you get it all back we'll honour the offer made above

We will need proof of payment for our records showing the early correspondence with Mark Moye and payment record, for example Paypal receipt, credit card statement or similar.


FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PAID A DEPOSIT TO MARK MOYE

Again, we have no intention to leave you to deal with this on your own. As every situation is different, if there is anyone out there who has paid a deposit, but not discussed this with us, we’d like you to contact us. There are various ways we can help in these circumstances, but we’d like to discuss them with you directly.

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PAID MARK MOYE IN FULL FOR MORE THAN ONE JACKET

Once more, we have no intention to leave you to deal with this on your own. As every situation is different, if there is anyone out there who has paid in full for more than one jacket, but not discussed this with us, we’d like you to contact us. There are various ways we can help in these circumstances, but we’d like to discuss them with you directly.

holly@aeroleatherclothing.com

Edit - Also, anyone we previously offered a 10% discount to on their orders, it'll now be processed as 20% off instead.

 

[KILO NOVEMBER]

The game is not worth the candle

Stupid question, but what are the US laws on insolvency?

In the US, bankruptcy laws are for the protection of creditors like the customers left "holding the bag". It is the responsibility of the creditors to hire an attorney to bring suit against the debtor. With attorneys' fees of $200 per hour and up, and that would be in a small city with metropolitan area rates in the $500 per hour and up range, it is very unlikely that a creditor could recover his money from such a debtor at a cost that would make the expense worthwhile.

The creditors could club together and hire an attorney to represent them collectively, but that would only work if they could establish that the debtor has assets sufficient to pay the attorney's fees and have something left over for them.

This might work for a deep pockets debtor, but it's hard to imagine that this guy has any money.

 

[Flicka]

In the US, bankruptcy laws are for the protection of creditors like the customers left "holding the bag". It is the responsibility of the creditors to hire an attorney to bring suit against the debtor. With attorneys' fees of $200 per hour and up, and that would be in a small city with metropolitan area rates in the $500 per hour and up range, it is very unlikely that a creditor could recover his money from such a debtor at a cost that would make the expense worthwhile.

The creditors could club together and hire an attorney to represent them collectively, but that would only work if they could establish that the debtor has assets sufficient to pay the attorney's fees and have something left over for them.

This might work for a deep pockets debtor, but it's hard to imagine that this guy has any money.

Wow, it sounds like our system is better for small creditors. The atterney is paid by the debtor (or the public if there is no money) here. Payment is decided by the court and they oversee the entire bankruptcy process and all the major decisions are made by the court (the process was really in focus when SAAB became insolvent last year). It's considered to be in the interest of everyone to create an environment of financial stability. And usually in these cases, one of the creditors is most often the Tax Authority (since you have to pay VAT monthly they tend to become aware of insolvency rather quickly and you know tax people... They don't like to lose money) so usually the file for bankruptcy is made by Kronofogdemyndigheten (a public authority that enforces debts - not just for the government) on their behalf. But of course, if there is no money there is no money. Nothing can change that - but it's also the job of the attorney to write a recommendation for the department of economical crimes of whether or not they should investigate and prosecute. Again, this is to avoid people getting away with fraud etc. and considered to be in the public interest.

I thought all that was more or less the same in all Western countries. One lives and learns.

 

[trob09]

OUR OFFER TO THOSE WHO HAVE PAID IN FULL FOR A JACKET FROM MARK MOYE

Edit - Also, anyone we previously offered a 10% discount to on their orders, it'll now be processed as 20% off instead.

Thank you Holly, I can't wait to get my jacket...

 

[Atticus Finch]

I have several questions. I may be able to get some helpful information if I know where to start looking.

1. Has Aero USA (if it is a corporation) or Mark Moye filed for bankruptcy protection?

2. If yes, when and in what district?

3. In this thread I've seen a link posted to the US Attorney for the South Carolina District. Why would South Carolina be proper venue for a Federal action against Mark Moye or Aero USA?

Thanks,

AF

 

[Grayland]

I have several questions. I may be able to get some helpful information if I know where to start looking.

1. Has Aero USA (if it is a corporation) or Mark Moye filed for bankruptcy protection?

2. If yes, when and in what district?

3. In this thread I've seen a link posted to the US Attorney for the South Carolina District. Why would South Carolina be proper venue for a Federal action against Mark Moye or Aero USA?

Thanks,

AF

Aero Leather USA is based out of Columbia, SC.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Thanks Grayland! Yes, that helps me. I have someone looking to see if he has filed bankruptcy. Knowing where to start the search is a great help. Do you happen to know if Aero USA is a LLC or a subchapter S or any other form of corporation?

AF

 

[cloudylemonade]

He's based in South Carolina. I've no idea if he's filed for bankruptcy protection, we've had no responses from him since last Monday.

 

[ButteMT61]

I'd just like to chime in a second. I feel as bad as anyone here - and in some ways worse since I indeed have been one to praise Aero and AEROUSA on this and other forums over the last few years. People have ordered jackets based on these statements.
But I am concerned with the declaration that special treatment was given to some of us. While that may have been done - unbeknownst to "us", the inference is that "we" somehow knew about this or participated in it. While that hopefully is unintentional, it makes me feel even worse that ANYONE might interpret it that way. I - along with others - got duped too. Not with money, but something more important to me - TRUST. I'm still rather in a state if shock over this. I didn't rush to judgment of Mark as I've seen that happen far too often in life. Usually the results are pretty awful. I'd hope I'd get the benefit of the doubt if I was accused of wrongdoing. After some time though, it appears Mark may have indeed got himself into deep trouble, leaving a wake of disaster.
I feel awful for anyone who was as excited as I have been over a jacket order. I feel bad for Aero for being in such an awful position here - financially and otherwise. It's frankly sucked the joy out of this hobby - at least in the short-term. I hope my friends at AERO Scotland realize I would not jump to judgment of them either. It's not in my character. I truly hoped this was a big mistake, and Mark would take care of things and all would be happy. Sadly, this will play out slowly and likely with mixed results.

 

[Atticus Finch]

It looks like there has been a filing relevant to this thread but the action appears to be closed. It is difficult to glean further information without talking to the case administrator and I’m not sure how much more he can provide. I’ve called him and left a message.

IF a bankruptcy action has discharged all debts, there isn’t much realistic hope of further recovery...from the debtor.

AF

 

[Atticus Finch]

Again...just to be sure everyone understands....it appears that there has been a filing. I cannot tell for sure without speaking to the administrator.

AF

 

[cloudylemonade]

I'd just like to chime in a second. I feel as bad as anyone here - and in some ways worse since I indeed have been one to praise Aero and AEROUSA on this and other forums over the last few years. People have ordered jackets based on these statements.
But I am concerned with the declaration that special treatment was given to some of us. While that may have been done - unbeknownst to "us", the inference is that "we" somehow knew about this or participated in it. While that hopefully is unintentional, it makes me feel even worse that ANYONE might interpret it that way. I - along with others - got duped too. Not with money, but something more important to me - TRUST. .

I never meant to imply that you would ever have expected preferential treatment, nor participated in it. I've merely pointed out that it seems Mark has done better by most of the customers here, as he's been smart enough to realise had he wronged these people, word would have got out sooner and I'd imagine all would have become clear before now. I'm completely in agreement that this would be unbeknownst to any of you, it's just him covering his own back.

Sorry if I caused any offence in pointing this out, but it's the only real pattern emerging from these orders.

 

[cloudylemonade]

Again...just to be sure everyone understands....it appears that there has been a filing. I cannot tell for sure without speaking to the administrator.

AF

Thanks for your investigation, that's one thing I hadn't thought of looking into. Can you please keep me informed on any information you may find, or pass on information about who we could talk to about this?

Thanks.

 

[ButteMT61]

I never meant to imply that you would ever have expected preferential treatment, nor participated in it. I've merely pointed out that it seems Mark has done better by most of the customers here, as he's been smart enough to realise had he wronged these people, word would have got out sooner and I'd imagine all would have become clear before now. I'm completely in agreement that this would be unbeknownst to any of you, it's just him covering his own back.Sorry if I caused any offence in pointing this out, but it's the only real pattern emerging from these orders.

No, it's been said a few times by a few different folks and I finally decided to post on it since it appears the evidence is stacking up against him (Mark). Had to say something as it was bugging me more and more. Thanks for the reply.

 

[cloudylemonade]

No, it's been said a few times by a few different folks and I finally decided to post on it since it appears the evidence is stacking up against him (Mark). Had to say something as it was bugging me more and more. Thanks for the reply.

I don't think anyone has suggested that you have any fault in any of it, well not that I've seen. You shouldn't feel bad, all you've done is honestly support business that have done right by you, you weren't to know of any of the problems ahead.

Hope that you feel better soon, I'd hate for this to have killed your passion for jackets on top of everything else.