A Message From Aero Leather USA

[hpalapdog]

Well, I've just spent an hour or so reading through the whole thread. Couple of points I have a hard time understanding.

Mark Moye had a trade account at Aero. Presumably he paid after shipping within 30 days. The orders were backed by hefty customer deposits. These confirmed sales are profitable so where is the problem ? If it's a short term cash flow shortage, the perennial problem of small businesses, a bank loan or extended credit from the supplier should be available. (on inspection of the order book.)

I used to sell new Swiss and German watches on Ebay. Mostly from stock. Occasionally someone would ask for something a bit specialist that would have to be a special order and take months to arrive. A 10% deposit seemed fair to most customers which on average was around $150.
I am astonished that people have been paying large amounts up front for jackets and then waiting, in some cases for more than a year, without contacting Aero Scotland ? Or indeed that Ebay allow such listings in the first place.
Certainly in the UK this is very unusual business practice and probably wouldn't even have occurred to Aero Scotland that such things could happen !

Those owed money might like to consider doing a credit card chargeback. In some instances there is no time limit for non-performance. In this case non-delivery or possibly even fraud. Ring your card company and ask for a claim form. The claim is against Paypal, the recipient of the funds.
Whether Paypal ever manages to reclaim their money later is not of direct concern.
I once successfully got all my money back doing a chargeback on an item purchased on Ebay. It broke six months later and the seller did not respond. All the relevant documentation needed to be printed and sent to Mastercard.

 

[resortes805]

Is anyone considering taking legal action? I was defrauded as well.

 

[jlanderson]

Is anyone considering taking legal action? I was defrauded as well.

It would not surprise me in the least if Aero Scotland hasn't already talked to counsel. I've started a billing dispute with Bank of America, the issuer of the credit card I used with PayPal to place the deposit, so I know that BofA's card security/fraud division is in on this. I would think that the FBI's Internet Fraud office in Columbia has been made aware of the matter, as well.

I believe many of us, at least those of us who were still within our bank's standard six-month window to open a billing dispute, will get our money back. It just may take 60 to 90 days. The poor guys who paid in full and have been waiting a year or more, only to find their orders were never forwarded to Scotland and kept being put off by Moye ... they're probably the ones who'll have to go to court. Where? ... I don't know. They might have to file in Columbia, where the alleged fraud occurred ... and that would be a pain in the ass for plaintiffs scattered across the country.

It's just a mess. A ******ned mess.

And btw, good luck ... I feel for you. I'm "only" out $500 for a deposit, not like some of the people here who are out a couple of thousand.

PS: Locate the nearest field office of the FBI using this webpage. They could explain your options to you: http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field

This is the website for FBI's field office in Columbia, where Aero Leather USA is/was located: http://www.fbi.gov/columbia/

 

[andreasmario]

Hi I am also in need to get my payed money back for two Jackets, and are perhaps interested in a claim against Mark only 3 weeks ago i payed him over $ 1800 . so i am following this. i think to open a claim true my credit card company may help me i see what happens there luckily one jacket i purchased thru e bay and there buyer protection is hopefully what i think it is a buyers protection, again i know more next week .

 

[jlanderson]

Hi I am also in need to get my payed money back for two Jackets, and are perhaps interested in a claim against Mark only 3 weeks ago i payed him over $ 1800 . so i am following this. i think to open a claim true my credit card company may help me i see what happens there luckily one jacket i purchased thru e bay and there buyer protection is hopefully what i think it is a buyers protection, again i know more next week .

CALL YOUR CREDIT CARD ISSUER IMMEDIATELY!! The moment you get a fraud/billing dispute opened, they will sequester that charge and you will not be charged interest on it. Please, save yourself some major dollars and call your bank tonight!!!

And the jacket you purchased through eBay? Definitely start a billing dispute with them immediately, too.

 

[jlanderson]

I am astonished that people have been paying large amounts up front for jackets and then waiting, in some cases for more than a year, without contacting Aero Scotland ? Or indeed that Ebay allow such listings in the first place.

Honestly, I think people trusted him. A lot of these people here, I think, knew him and never thought something like this ever could happen.

 

[coloradorider]

Hi I am also in need to get my payed money back for two Jackets, and are perhaps interested in a claim against Mark only 3 weeks ago i payed him over $ 1800 . so i am following this. i think to open a claim true my credit card company may help me i see what happens there luckily one jacket i purchased thru e bay and there buyer protection is hopefully what i think it is a buyers protection, again i know more next week .

ebay protection is 45 days standard and 60 days for custom made items. Since you ordered at least one jacket through ebay contact them immediately since you should be covered by their purchase protection.

If you paid outside ebay with a credit card for your second jacket most cards offer 45 day standard protection for these types of issues. Contact your card issuer immediately.

 

[nissle]

I never thought he could do this to us...he got us pretty good. Looking back now, all the signs were there that something was wrong. But i was so blind because i finally ordered an Aero jacket.

I'm curious how many people are owed money or a jacket. More Customers seems to pop up everyday. I hope everyone that is owed a refund gets there money back or a jacket.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Someone should start a new thread..with a 'poll' to see how many are still owed money.
HD

 

[jlanderson]

And for anyone who's lost money in this matter, there's always the recourse of the federal government. I'm no attorney, but to this layman, this businessman's activities certainly sound as if they qualify as "wire fraud," which is a federal crime. Here's the address of the website of the U.S. Attorney for the District of South Carolina: http://www.justice.gov/usao/sc/index.html .

Seeing as how those of us who've tried to contact Moye have had no luck, perhaps the U.S. Attorney could get him to pick up the phone or return an email.

And for the folks out there who are outside the windows of opportunity for their banks, eBay or PayPal to get involved and refund any lost money, contacting the U.S. Attorney might be the only option left, short of a small-claims action (which would have to take place in South Carolina) or a class action (which could take forever and not leave everyone 100 percent whole).

This whole matter just bites. It really does.

 

[Tony B]

That would get his attention, giving someone the benefit of the doubt when they have your money and there are time limited claim periods is a mug's game, been there done that the only way is to hound someone untill you get the right result.

 

[Grayland]

And for anyone who's lost money in this matter, there's always the recourse of the federal government. I'm no attorney, but to this layman, this businessman's activities certainly sound as if they qualify as "wire fraud," which is a federal crime. Here's the address of the website of the U.S. Attorney for the District of South Carolina: http://www.justice.gov/usao/sc/index.html .

Seeing as how those of us who've tried to contact Moye have had no luck, perhaps the U.S. Attorney could get him to pick up the phone or return an email.

And for the folks out there who are outside the windows of opportunity for their banks, eBay or PayPal to get involved and refund any lost money, contacting the U.S. Attorney might be the only option left, short of a small-claims action (which would have to take place in South Carolina) or a class action (which could take forever and not leave everyone 100 percent whole).

This whole matter just bites. It really does.

Thank you for the link. I just went through the process and filed a complaint with the US Attorney for the District of South Carolina.

 

[ButteMT61]

FWIW, I emailed Mark last week as a friend to see if things were "OK". I did not get any reply so I guess things must be pretty bad there. Never thought I was in any way being "utilized" for promotional purposes, but it wouldn't be the first time in my life that's happened. At this point I'm pretty much done with the hobby for a while. At least the online part of it. Between this and the USPS losing a jacket I sold last month I wonder if it's not a sign to get a life...
Good luck all. I hope you get things worked out.

 

[derleicaman]

Hey Scott, I for one would miss your posts. I know what you mean about this putting a bad taste in your mouth and cooling your interest in what after all is just a hobby. There are certainly more important things in life to worry about. But, I do enjoy visiting here and on VLJ. Very nice bunch of folks who are very helpful and full of knowlege. Helps take your mind off of life and I've met people I never would have and can share other interests with as well. Don't wander too far, Scott!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

At this point I'm pretty much done with the hobby for a while. At least the online part of it. Between this and the USPS losing a jacket I sold last month I wonder if it's not a sign to get a life...
Good luck all. I hope you get things worked out.

Who's zoomin who? Come on you can't make like a tree..and leave. You California dreamers hug that tree. Afterall..you are now a daydream believer with visions of horsehide in your head. Can't ignore the rules: You can checkout anytime you want...but you can never leave! :eeek:

 

[oneterrifichog]

Who's zoomin who? Come on you can't make like a tree..and leave. You California dreamers hug that tree. Afterall..you are now a daydream believer with visions of horsehide in your head. Can't ignore the rules: You can checkout anytime you want...but you can never leave! :eeek:

I feel for all involved but as far as I am concerned this hobby has too many things going for it to drop. Craftsmanship by the manufacturers, real people creating gorgeous leather jackets that harkens back to a time when real was not the internet. Damn I hate the fact that over 80 people have gotten a raw deal and frankly I am really disappointed in you Mark.

Mark, I hate it for you and I hope you can work this out but damn man get some help and do the right thing!
Communicate with the people and with Aero/Scotland.

 

[jlanderson]

I feel for all involved but as far as I am concerned this hobby has too many things going for it to drop. Craftsmanship by the manufacturers, real people creating gorgeous leather jackets that harkens back to a time when real was not the internet. Damn I hate the fact that over 80 people have gotten a raw deal and frankly I am really disappointed in you Mark.

Mark, I hate it for you and I hope you can work this out but damn man get some help and do the right thing!
Communicate with the people and with Aero/Scotland.

That's why I was so psyched about getting my first Aero ... the beauty of the thing, the craftsmanship and the fact that's made by a real person, the smell of the leather when you open the closet door.

And I just wish he'd contact us all, too. I left three more messages yesterday; just couldn't bring myself to call again today and get voicemail ... again.

 

[dr.velociraptor]

Not for nothing but honestly how did some of you guys go over 2 years without raising an enormous stink? If it was one guy I could understand but it's dozens apparently and we really didn't hear a peep about it before the lid was blown off.

That said this guys fraud appears to be in the tens of thousands, I wouldn't imagine refunds aren't forthcoming anytime soon. It stinks to put your trust in someone and be robbed, it's theft plain and simple, the law will do nothing though, unfortunately you guys are probably going to have to eat it and move on, karma is a bitch.

 

[jimmer_5]

Not for nothing but honestly how did some of you guys go over 2 years without raising an enormous stink? If it was one guy I could understand but it's dozens apparently and we really didn't hear a peep about it before the lid was blown off.

That said this guys fraud appears to be in the tens of thousands, I wouldn't imagine refunds are forthcoming anytime soon. It stinks to put your trust in someone and be robbed, it's theft plain and simple, the law will do nothing though, unfortunately you guys are probably going to have to eat it and move on, karma is a bitch.

Wait times of up to a year were not uncommon with Aero Leather USA, and no that I'm aware of had ever been stiffed before. I'm not sure it's intentional, but your tone is coming off condescending. My apologies if I am incorrect in that assumption.

 

[dr.velociraptor]

Wait times of up to a year were not uncommon with Aero Leather USA, and no that I'm aware of had ever been stiffed before. I'm not sure it's intentional, but your tone is coming off condescending. My apologies if I am incorrect in that assumption.

I'm not trying to be condescending, not sure how one has a "tone" online but it probably has more to do with how you're reading it than with what I wrote (been known to happen here). It's just crazy to me the extent of this fraud going back years and all the while the guy was getting rave reviews here, no one had anything bad to say about him and for years he is stringing dozens of buyers along, it seems like someone would've been here raising a stink over it. I'm just amazed the guy pulled it off, he must've found the most patient group of people to rip off.

A year wait for an Aero seems really long, I thought it was six months tops, even if it was a year I'm reading people waiting nearly 3 years in some cases. It's amazing no one came here to complain about it, the guy must be a real manipulator to get people to commit that level of trust in him to wait years for a very pricey jacket.