A few questions about blocks

[BD Jones]

I would like to start looking for my own hat block but have a few questions.

1) When the size of block is a 7 1/8, does this take into account the sweatband? In other words, is the block really 22 1/2 inches around if it is a 7 1/8 or is it bigger so there is room for the sweatband to be sewn in later?

2) If it is bigger around to account for the sweatband, how much should you allow over the actual size of the hat? I've noticed on EBay that some blocks are not listed with the size of the hat, but rather just the circumference.

3) Is the brim thingy (sorry, I don't know the technical term so please feel free to correct me) necessary or is it just something that makes things easier?

Do any of my questions make sense? I really want to get into to trying to reblock some hats, but need a good block first. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
BDJ

 

[Fedora]

The hat blocks come with the size and style stamped on the bottom. Like, 5 3/4 (crown height), 7 1/4 (size) and 52 (style of block) The blocks are sized to block the hat so the sweatband fits the hole. Therefore the block is usually 1/4 an inch larger than the inside of the sweatband. The brim flange is very helpful, in fact, if you don't have one, you will have to make one to make the reblocking process easier. The flange (if it is the same size as the block,i.e.7 1/4 hole size) will fit over the hat, and you use this to stretch the hat over the block. Not an easy feat with some felt. It also gives you a clean 90 degree break in the brim so that looks crisp. On some hats that had wide brim, I have increased the crown height by pushing the flange all the way down on the block, thereby creating a new "break" in the brim. When you reblock, always remove the sweatband(and don't do like Optimo and just rip it out), using knife or stitch remover. Hats can be reblocked with the band in, using a smaller block, but you won't get the optimal shape, especially if you are after a particular look. regards, Fedora

 

[Andykev]

Correction....

The FLANGE block is used to shape the brim and is NOT used to pull the felt over the crown block. The flange (oval ) block is used on a stand which has two pins which fit into the corresponding pins on the flange. The hat is placed crown side down with the bow of the hat matching the little recessed part inside the flange (so it won't mash the bow). Then the hat is covered with a protective non marking heavy canvas which has a soft nap and a spring is pulled around to hold the canvass over the felt. (Did you notice the groove in the flange block?). Remember folks, nothing is cut, shaped, groved, etc. without a good reason. Then the flange block is put under the "sandbox" which is a dome heated (it's full of sand) to "iron" or press the felt.
Notice that some flange blocks are more tapered say at the back than at the front. That is how the back side of your brim has a bigger "swoop" or upward snap, and the front is more gentle.

The flange block is marked as needed, but IF YOU ARE USING A FLANGE FOR A 7 3/8 hat you need the 7 1/2 FLANGE.

Straw hat blocks are shaped (Optimo style with the line, or fedora shaped where the block looks like a finished hat). FELT hats are ALL DONE on OPEN CROWN blocks..where the hat can be spun, brushed, ironed, greased, etc. YOU CANNOT block a felt hat on a "shaped block".

When reblocking a hat, remember the lining is removed, or else the stitching patterns will "telegraph" thru to spoil the felt shape, and you can put lines in the felt.

I will post photos of the equipment, blocks , stands, flanges, and leather protector etc used to block a hat.

 

[Andykev]

Here are the promised photos

These show the items used to block a hat brim...which is the flange part. You place the flange on the stand, insert the hat upside down with the brim ribbon in the cutout inside the flange. Then you place a metal ring to protect the sweatband from the heat (it's adjustable for any size hat, and it also helps hold the hat against the flange). A cover is placed over the hat, held down by spring (notice notch in edge of flange to receive the spring). Then the entire setup is placed under the sandbag which is the domed heating element. This procedure "set's the brim" to the shape of the flange.

[

 

[Fedora]

You are correct of course, but I was talking about home blocking, with just the bare essentials. In order to do a reblock with minimal equipment, the flange is necessary in order to use it to pull the hat down tight over the block. You can do it by hand, but that flange really makes the job easier, plus it puts a nice clean 90 degree turn to the brim. Prior to getting a flange, I just traced the shape of my block on some Corian, cut the hole just a little bigger to allow for the thickness of the felt, and I had the tool that I needed for hand blocking. Since that time, I bought a real flange, just for esthetic reasons. I have lost count on the hats that I have reblocked this year, probably around 40 or so, and what I described works, regardless of the intended purposes of said equipment. That info you supplied was very interesting to me and would love to see the layout you talked about. I look forward to seeing the pics. regards, Fedora

 

[BD Jones]

Thanks for the detailed information guys! This gives me a start on what to look for. Now I have to find the right block. Of course, that's probably easier said than done.

 

[Fedora]

Keep an eye on ebay. I have bought 3 from there. Thanks for the pics Andykev. Very informative!! Now I know what the groove on the flange is for. Figured it served some purpose. I think that I may start looking around for some of that equipment since reblocking has become a hobby in the last year or so. I was sure that some of the shaped blocks were used on felt. I was led to believe that by Gary White in converstions that I have had with him. He told me that early fedoras, etc, were hand shaped but later on they blocked in various styles. Perhaps I misunderstood. Regardsless, I like the hand styled hats better. Fedora

 

[Andykev]

Shaped

Blocks for FELT hats are used...but on the cheap Biltmore type where they stamp them on aluminum molds by the hundreds.
As any vintage hat collector will tell you , the quality hats were sold OPEN CROWN which means they were hand shaped for the individual discerning customer.

The sanding , pouncing, ironing machines are all designed to automatically follow the contour of the open crown block. NO WAY can a sander or iron follow the cut shape of the formed block.

STRAWS however are NOT sanded, or pounced. They are steamed, and take the exact shape of the block.

So, as Paul Harvey says, "now you know the rest of the story.."

 

[Fedora]

Not only does Biltmore make pre-creased hats, but Akubra does as well, but according to their web site, they use wood blocks. I think pre-creased hats became popular later on, especially on western hats. Although you see vintage dress hats with a pre-creased tear drop crown. I doubt if an inferior quality of felt was used on the pre-creased crowns. Would not make much sense. I would guess that during the time period that mercury was used to make felt, the open crown, bash em' to suit you, was common. The mercury felt was better felt, and most hats were mercury felt up until it was outlawed in 1941. Perhaps that is one reason the most desirable hats were open crowned as these stand a good chance of being the better felt. Not to mention the esthetics. Fedora

 

[Andykev]

Mercury

The use of mercury in the felting process was NOT the main determining factor to the quality of the hat. The FUR and overall processes determine the quality. Manufacturers developed safer methods than using mercury. Felt today is not as good as before...because of costs, availibality of quality materials, and skilled experienced workers. Carroting of the fur to increase the twisting and bending of the natural fibers and hairs was done with qicksilver disolved in a common aquafortis...it improved the tightness and felting properties. But the chemicals are extremely harmful... Today they have newer methods....and there are some manufactureres who can produce the fine felts...but they are very expensive. Why? Go into any major department store...ask to see the men's hat section. You will eithere be shown baseball caps, Dorfman Pacific wools, or be given a blank stare. Because hardly anyone (except us) wear real hats, there is no profitable market except for the independant makers we all know of today.

 

[Fedora]

I got more info regarding the carroting, mercury felt etc. Mercury nitrate was known to be harmful to hatters for a hundred years before it was finally outlawed, due to the hatters union pushing the issue. The hat manufacturers resisted until the end. Why? Because the other substances used to carrot the felt did not work as well on rabbit fur. You could not get the strength or density of felt. They changed to hydrogen peroxide and nitric acid, which was already known to raise the scales on underfur. But, it was inferior. Hence the resistance. Other substances work, but not like mercury. Back in the days of beaver hats, hatters used mercury to carrot cheaper furs like rabbit, in order to imitate the more expensive beaver fur which did not require the carroting due to the different structure of fibers. The use of mercury in the carroting process makes a higher quality felt. Modern high quality felt isn't the same as high quality mercury felt. While the grade of underfur is important, a no brainer, the use or mercury in carroting makes a stronger, denser, finer felt. Highly desirable by folks like us. Fedora

 

[Andykev]

You are RIGHT

Well said and you are 100% correct. But alas, you aren't going to find the same quality today as in true classic vintage hats...like anything else, (except maybe electronics and automobiles) things are not made as well today as in years past.

Finding a MINT vintage hat with no insect damage...what a joy. The density and quality of the felt is unbelievable.

The only place I have seen hats approach the quality of the vintage classics is OPTIMO. And they are using modern produced hat bodies. They have the skill, knowledge, and vintage equipment which produde hats that are very close...to the classics. And his straws are some of the best I have ever seen (and I have bought from all the major manufacturers)/

 

[Fedora]

Yes, I agree. I love the Optimo felt. Would you email some pics of as many of your hats as possible. I love hats and you have the largest collection that I have ever seen. regards, Fedora

 

[BD Jones]

Wow! I had know idea I would spark a topic like this. I've learned more information than I expected. That's why I love this place so much.

I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d like to see some of your hats as well Andy. I'm really getting into the vintage hats. Also, could you give some tips on what to look for in vintage hats? Good brands, tips on identifying the year of production, etc. I think a lot of us here would appreciate it.

 

[Andykev]

I am flattered

But the posting of photos of my "collection" is very very time consuming. I use "Image Station"...and you have to upload , sort, ..it's a pain.

I learned of hats of vintage era by buying MANY MANY on Ebay....and by reading books on hats, and having the opportunity to visit a vintage hat store[URL=http://www.vintagesilhouettes.

There I was able to pick the brain of a man who knew. I also flew to Chicago, and I have also read every book written on the subject.

I will start posting photos probably the week after Christmas. Mom is home from the hospital, but she can't talk yet...stroke. And work is busy this time of year, and of course there is the shopping for my little family.

I prefer Cavanagh hats, as vintage, as well as clean Borsalino's. For everyday wear, you can't beat a Stetson. Dobbs makes a very very fine dress hat.

They are all ...oh so wonderful. Get one of each, you can always always sell what you don't want.

 

[Marc]

Andy,

would you please recommend some books on the topic?

I have so far only read "The panama hat trail" by Tom Miller.

Thanks,

Marc

 

[Nathan Flowers]

But the posting of photos of my "collection" is very very time consuming. I use "Image Station"...and you have to upload , sort, ..it's a pain.

You may want to check out Fotki at www.fotki.com

It costs $35 if you want pictures to show up at another board, but if you don't, it's free, and very easy to use.

 

[emigran]

Band Block... How When Why...???

Confused as to how, when and why one would "use" a Band Block.... What's the difference between it and a stretcher...
APpreciate you replies...

 

[carranty]

Confused as to how, when and why one would "use" a Band Block.... What's the difference between it and a stretcher...
APpreciate you replies...

A band block is essentially a fixed size stretcher (its just a solid piece of wood, you can't adjust its size), but one that accurately represents the shape and size of your head - or at least the bit of your head the sweatband touches. So if you put a band block in a hat for a week to try and get the hat to adjust, its like you've worn the hat for a full week without ever taking it off.

Band blocks are made from an outline of ones own head, drawn by using a device called a conformer, that some hat makers use.

 

[Chepstow]

Carranty, well said!