A.D. Burgesser & Co. Beaver Coachmans Hat Sz 7 3/4

[Purplesage]

Rare A.D. Burgesser & Co. Beaver Coachmans Hat in excellent condition. Aside from some age related felt wear mostly on the bottom of the brim and the edge of the the crown top the hat is in great shape considering it's age which I believe dates to the late 1800s or early 1900s. It has a 2 5/8" brim with 1/4" grosgrain edge binding and a 4 1/2" flat top crown which is wrapped in a 2" grosgrain ribbon. The inside silk liner is clean and looks almost brand new with the exception of a small area around hat opening where the stitching has come undone. There is no sweatband which was typical of hats of the era. There is no mothing, stains or odors. The hat is a large size with a circumference of approximately 24 1/8" which would make it around a size 7 3/4. I was told this was called a Coachmans hat but if anyone has any more knowledge of this style and period of hat please let me know. I would like to keep the hat but it's too large for my size 7 1/8 noggin. $365.00 plus shipping.

 

[hatsRme]

Maybe a ladies' hat from the Edwardian era. I ran across one looking just like it last year, and Prof. Bowers weighed in. That's why the absence of a leather sweatband. The large size was intended to allow it to be worn on top of a "pile" of long hair. But I could be wrong, again.

The owner of the one I saw, which was also a very large size, inherited it from her father, who thought it was a man's hat, and used to wear it back in the day.

See, Prof... I WAS listening!

 

[LoveMyHats2]

I do have to agree on this, as much as I am so far far from being any hat expert. My Husband has some tintype pictures of relatives and some of the ladies have a hat on that would sure be a dead ringer for this hat here. They are all dressed up wearing button shoes, bustle dresses and parasol umbrella and have a hat like this on, I would think the time period would be around 1880-1890? These tintype pictures are all in a leather bound presentation book sort of album. Some of the pictures are of relatives and so old, no one knows who in the world they were? However a few pictures are of the same time period and have US Army Officers helping some of the ladies out of a carriage. The Pictures for the most part where taken in either downtown Detroit, or in the downtown area of Pontiac Michigan. The Uniforms of these officers are from men that had served in the Civil War, that much we do know as two relatives had served that survived and a few more served that had been killed in Action. Also Daniel's great Grandpa was photographed in one of two tintypes and was very young in those, so we have some idea of the time period from all of that known family history.

Come to think of it, this type of woman's hat has been in some movie that would have been made regarding that time period? Not sure but maybe someone can come up with that?

Regardless of all that, your hat is sure rare.

 

[Purplesage]

Woman's vs mens hat!!!!

Well I'm not so sure it's a woman's hat because I have another one that looks similar but the crown is shorter (About 4") and the 2 7/8" brim has a black 2" fur trim and the main part of the brim with is brown fur felt if seen from above has an interesting and elaborate whirling pattern The ribbon on this one is very large and goes all the way to the top of the flat crown. The liner on the inside also has a round elastic opening in the crown tip which I believe was for a ladies bun. I was told this was an Edwardian professional woman's hat. I really can't tell the front from the back but if it's a ladies hat I assume the bow is on the left. The bow is very interesting as well. The one I have posted is pretty large even for a ladies hat and the bow is on the left which from what I understand if often how you can tell the difference. I think I have seen photos of mens hats that look similar to this but I could be wrong. I have to do a little research. I did find a page in the 1901 edition of The American Hatter where A.D. Burgesser is mentioned. I'll have to do a little more research. The woman's hat is about a size 7 1/4 and in very good condition. I'm planning on selling it as well if you're interested.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Well, I was taking a peek online, I'll have to post the link to the website information as to who and what goes on that website. It seems some Lady is some sort of a historian and deals with tintype and other photographs and the history of who was in the photograph and everything about what they are wearing. Perhaps she could tell you a whole lot about the hats you have. I do think the hat is from the 1880 time frame, but, it may even be older. I say that as there is a very similar hat on that website, the date I think was 1866?

Even if this hat was a "ladies" hat, most would place some flowers or a feather trimming all around the sides and top (crown). I almost have to wonder, if some hats that are like this one, could be worn by both a man and woman?

 

[LoveMyHats2]

http://forgottenfacesandlongagoplaces.blogspot.com/2012/06/tin-type-tuesday-man-in-top-hat.html

This may be a treasure trove for information to anyone on the lounge regarding hats, dates, clothing. She gives an email contact for people to ask her for information or to submit whatever to her.

You will also see that there are many photographs connected to her online, the things she studies...hats, clothing, etc.

 

[alanfgag]

Have you searched the mfgr? There are many references and advertisements from the first two decades of the 20th century. Linkhttp://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchdetail.cfm?trg=1&strucID=714644&imageID=824502&total=60&num=0&parent_id=714608&s=3&notword=&d=&c=&f=2&k=1&sScope=&sLevel=&sLabel=&lword=&lfield=&sort=&imgs=20&pos=1&snum=&e=w

 

[Purplesage]

That is a great link Alan. I have found similar ads for woman's hats made by Burgesser during the same time frame you mentioned. I haven't found any ads for Burgesser mens hats so I assume they made only ladies hats! In any case, it's a nice collectors hat. I'm still looking to see if I can find a Burgesser mens hat.

I have this one for sale in the classifieds as well: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?77371-Edwardian-Professional-Woman-s-Hat&highlight= I was told this was a Professional Woman's hat of the Edwardian era from the woman I bought it from. I don't know the maker of the hat since there are no identifiable markings. It is a very interesting hat so I thought I would post it here for comparison purposes with the Burgesser. I can't tell the front from the back of the hat so if it's a ladies hat I assume the bow is on the right vice the left. I don't even know it it's a hard line rule that ladies hats have to bow on the right side and men on the left! I'm also not sure what the purpose of the round opening the liner above was for. I was think it was to accommodate ladies hair styles of the day, a bun for example or some type of airflow or ventilation.

 

[Purplesage]

Thank you for the link LoveMyHats2.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Hello. You are so very welcome. It would be fantastic to own some of these really older rare hats, and as you see Alan seems to have some sort of divining rod to keep himself in stock to some of the nicer old timers hats, you are running a close second! lol!

It is amazing to find such a gem as what you have there. Here in our home, Daniel and I consider it pure luck to even find something clean, wearable, and eye catching even from the 1950's!
I would not discount that the name brand of this hat in question, never made a "mens" hat. It would maybe be totally impossible to say factually this is a woman's hat, unless someone someplace with a lot of old hat history (even if just in photography) can confirm it. Thus I felt maybe the link would help you out.

About a year ago we purchased a pair of mens dress shoes, really super nice wingtips that were British Tan in color. Made by a boot company luchesse (hope I spelled that right). The boots shared nothing with a cowboy boot and even after we sold them, and contacting the boot maker to see if they knew it another pair could be made, the answer was no. It was a special run for custom orders. Although the "gender" of the shoe was not a western/cowboy boot, the company that is not known for wingtips had made these for a limited time.

It would not be impossible for this hat company that made your hat, to have indeed made both a male and female owner/model. Also one interesting point my Husband tossed at me about this older hat and the customs of everyone. It is known in this time period almost everyone wore a hat. In wondering, we have to put in the mix that even the big boy hat companies made hats for both genders.

No experts here, just learning "as time goes by".....

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Oh one other aspect of hats for that time period regarding a hat. If you peek at many pictures of hats from that time period, even if a woman owned and wore this hat, it would be of custom for her to put something around the hat. Flowers, feathers, seemed to be more popular then even lace which started to be very common and popular at a much later date. Who knows if that itself could be the "gender" factor of this one hat?

 

[Purplesage]

LoveMyHats2 - I decided not to sell the hat for now until I can find out more info about it. There is a hat for sale on EBay which is very similar to the one I have posted. It's listed as a rare antique Riding or Fine Ranchman Hat Masterbilt Circa 1860s! Tell me what you think.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Antiqu...Circa-1860s-/310941571400?hash=item48658fd948

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Very close looking for sure. The eBay hat has sort of a "spanish" look, (Zorro) LOL! It has been listed a few times, not sure if by the same person????

Your hat is in better shape/condition than the eBay hat, from what I can tell by the pictures. I am going to see if I can find a way to contact one of Daniel's older relatives, as he has a "Great Aunt" that is still very sharp minded. This Aunt was always "high society" and into all the fashions and knew a great deal about the Civil War time period.

You do know, your hat may be from the 1840 to 1880 range in age? Rare, and really I think you would be really smart to have it identified, as it may be something a Museum would desire to purchase?

We had one "lounger" that is not here any more, but sells hats on eBay on and off. That person seemed also to know a lot of information regarding hats and attire from the Civil War. There is also one other person that we know in Las Vegas that is really sharp about Civil War era clothing and fashions after the Civil War up to the turn of the Century. I will see what information I can come up for you, as it would be great to know exactly the age and even history of this hat. Geez. Maybe some lady that was a "First Lady of the United States" owned that hat of yours? You just never know who may have owned it, but the hat itself is sure nice and rare enough to dig up some further research and is very interesting. I also am still thinking the company that made that hat, could have made a "unisex" hat (before that term was even used)....? No matter what it is of an interest for me to see what help I can give you by connecting you to anyone that knows what this hat may be?

 

[Purplesage]

LoveMyHats2 - The first thing my wife said when she saw the hat was that it looked like a Zorro hat. She doesn't like any of my hats and if she had it her way she would take them all out in the back yard and burn them. I appreciate the info you have provided. If you can connect me with someone who is an expert in hats of that time frame that would be great. I actually have tried it on and like the looks of it but it's too big. It has a taller crown then most homburgs which don't look good on me because of that. Almost looks like a gaucho hat as well! Whatever it is, it interesting. I still think it looks a lot like that "Ranchman's Hat" that fellow is selling on EBay. Don't know if he'll fetch $2,200.00 for it though. I know I don't have that kind of money to spend on a hat.

 

[Purplesage]

$299.00 conus.

 

[Purplesage]

No longer for sale.