A coat for hillwalking

[John in Covina]

You'd think no one survived in the wilds before modern "performance" materials were invented.

Teflon wrapped aramid with metalized ceramic reflective fibers, over a tri-micro nano diamond fiber fusion core and you can order it with special palladium-titanium zippers. It has it's own nuclear reactor and with the top of the line hood you could survive at the bottom of a deep sea trench, an anarctic winter or a nuclear blast. I use it for taking the garbage cans out to the street when it's cool or drizzling, if the weather is worse I get my good outdoors coat.

 

[Creeping Past]

John in Covina, No. 1 in Chore Performance Wear!

Perhaps I should follow your lead and commission a winter coat made from Dashing Tweed, complete with Teflon finish and luminous stripes.

 

[Nighthawk]

You'd think no one survived in the wilds before modern "performance" materials were invented.

I agree that garments made from classic materials are more stylish, that being said you won't find me wearing wool long-underwear. I go for the man-made materials for base layer like Under Armour cold gear. Nor do I want to see U.S. troops wearing WWII clothing in a combat zone.

I respect modern gear for what it is, and the same with the classic stuff. It all depends on what your activity is.... To each his own, I guess. [huh]

 

[H.Johnson]

Thanks, Graemsay.

That Mallory clothing project has been mentioned, and illustrated with photos, over at the Adventurer's Gear thread, if I remember right. I've been fascinated by that project for a couple of years. I've been looking and the nearest thing to Mallory's Burberry jacket, in looks if not mountain-level functionality, is a double layer cotton ventile shooting coat currently sold by Purdey, the gunmaker (see link above).

I have been priviledged to examine Ms. Anderson's reproduction of the Mallory expedition's Burberry jacket at close quarters (and to correspond with that fine lady).

In my opinion (and I admit I am biased) the nearest thing to that Burberry jacket that has been produced in living memory is the Belstaff Moorlander jacket that turns up on the web and in secondhand clothing shops from time to time. I picked up a NOS example (still in its polythene bag) recently. The main difference is the shoulder patches, which can be removed. The main similarity is that quirky shoulder articulation.

 

[BellyTank]

Herbert, that Belstaff is quite nice.

The Gebirgsjäger Anorak has a similar under-sleeve but in Anorak style, has a generous sleeve head and tapered sleeve, ending in pleats to the cuff.
The Mallory seems to retain the look of a suit/sport coat by virtue of a more normal sleeve width, with the addition of a proper "bellows", an actual join/seam in the armpit and a deeper sleeve attachment- "the bellows" folding away into the armpit.
Looking at the photos, this feature also allows for an arm attachment of less than horizontal, leaving a "normal" looking shoulder- rather than the purely functional detail of a horizontal or higher sleeve attachment.
This is a clever way of having cake and eating it.

I'm reminded of the Parsons Jacket and B-15 sleeve attachment.
I have been doing some thinking about this very feature today.

Anorak looms.


B
T

 

[Dudleydoright]

Poooo

I agree that garments made from classic materials are more stylish, that being said you won't find me wearing wool long-underwear. I go for the man-made materials for base layer like Under Armour cold gear. Nor do I want to see U.S. troops wearing WWII clothing in a combat zone.

I respect modern gear for what it is, and the same with the classic stuff. It all depends on what your activity is.... To each his own, I guess. [huh]

I've had years of itchy wool thermals as a kid, then used Helly Hansen Lifa stuff for years. I put up with the fact that after the first wear of synthetics, you stink like you've been out for weeks without a wash. And that every time you put them on clean, you stink like hell after the first sweat. Eventually I switched to merino wool and silk and I have to say that they really do beat modern synthetics hands down. AND you don't smell They cost more, last longer, don't smell and are made from replenishable sources.
Nope, if synthetics were better I'd use them but they just ain't. I say that as a climber and someone who used to work seismic in the beautiful but frozen Canadia 'North' in winter.
Cheers,
DDR

 

[BellyTank]

This "old v. new" gear thing has been done to death here before but it's nice to hear more on the positive from experienced outdoorsmen.

So what abaout this "Cotton Kills" thing I've heard so much about?
Is it all about cotton and wet/cold?

Natural materials/old style gear sure seem to be making a come back.
A lot of DIY Anorak-ing.

B
T

 

[John in Covina]

So what abaout this "Cotton Kills" thing I've heard so much about? Is it all about cotton and wet/cold?
B
T

***********
Exactly, Cotton is fine when dry, but when wet it will draw the heat from your body very fast. People have gotten Hypothermia from wearing wet cotton clothing in windy weather at fairly warm temperatures because it is so good at wicking away heat. Wool can be wet but will still hold your heat in and is therefor still effective when wet. Now in extreme cold I think that the need to stay dry at some point does trump wet wool.

John

 

[Creeping Past]

"Cotton kills" may just be the first bit of health and safety lore to make it big.

I guess the idea was to invent a mantra-like phrase that would get into people's minds and act as a prohibition and prevent harm from occurring in the first place.

Edited in light of a simultaneous, better-written post on the same subject.

 

[Creeping Past]

Belstaff Moorlander jacket

I've been looking for one of those for over a year. It's lodged in my mind as one of those holy grail kind of items. I shall not rest... In fact, I've had half a mind to get something similar made out of ventile cotton. Maybe sooner rather than later. Is the Belstaff gabardine?

And, yes, I'm aware that I crossed some sort of clothing-related line of common sense a while back. But not so fast as some and a bit more recently than others.

I was following the Mallory reproduction kit story. Excellent work. I've seen sweaters similar to the Mallory ones made by the same lady - very impressive work.

The Mallory project was in part the inspiration for my walking in vintage gear. Layers and style.

 

[Dudleydoright]

"Cotton kills" my ass

***********
Exactly, Cotton is fine when dry, but when wet it will draw the heat from your body very fast. People have gotten Hypothermia from wearing wet cotton clothing in windy weather at fairly warm temperatures because it is so good at wicking away heat. Wool can be wet but will still hold your heat in and is therefor still effective when wet. Now in extreme cold I think that the need to stay dry at some point does trump wet wool.

John

Cotton AGAINST THE SKIN in COLD weather kills. No doubt. But that is because cotton does not transmit your sweat (or rain if your w/proof is no good) away from the skin. Therefore it conducts your body heat away from you and into warming up the wet garments up to the same temperature as you are at. That's why I said I wear silk and merino (great coz it's not itchy) wool. I NEVER said anything about wearing a T-shirt next to the skin. Man-made fabrics are more hydrophililic than natural but not that much. Most folk have been conned into this 'modern is best' thing by manufacturers who are (like car makers) always looking to sex-up things in order to sell them. They don't want you to buy wool as it lasts forever. The climbers and sports stars who endorse this rubbish are paid to do so. Given a choice between using two types of something and getting paid to use one though it's performance is equal to the other, what would you do ? Also, if you were given loads of the object so that in the case of a thermal top, you didn't need to worry about long term performance, ease of cleaning etc, why opt for the so-called 'old fashioned' kit ?
My silk, merino wool and wool sweaters are more versatile, windproof, sweeter smelling and pack down WAY smaller than fleeces and other synthetic clothing. Look at the size of the old rucksacks. They were no bigger than modern ones. They carried kerosene stoves, sleeping bags etc.
Don't be conned folks !!! Pay a little more, use for a lot longer and be environmentally sound to boot.

DDR

 

[Creeping Past]

Smell

The second biggest difference I've noticed since starting to wear vintage gear for hiking is the comparative lack of stink from clothing. I can sit on buses and trains after a long walk and not smell my own sweaty fleece and goretex.

Odour is not so far mentioned as a disadvantage in the Wikipedia entry on polar fleece.

The main big difference between vintage and non-vintage hiking? My knees and legs rebel against hobnails on metalled roads. But I can't mention that because it's too far off topic.

 

[H.Johnson]

I've been looking for one of those for over a year. It's lodged in my mind as one of those holy grail kind of items. I shall not rest... In fact, I've had half a mind to get something similar made out of ventile cotton. Maybe sooner rather than later. Is the Belstaff gabardine?

It is in a fine twill, made (if my ageing memory serves me) by Carrington (the Viyella people). What size are you?

 

[Creeping Past]

46 chest, thank you for asking.

 

[BellyTank]

46 eh..?
Very nice.


That guy is always asking everybody's sizes .
(pulls Anorak sleeve back from claw like hand and adds Creeping Past/46 to the list)

B
T

 

[Creeping Past]

Brrr. I had no idea he was... A Collector.

 

[BellyTank]

...worse.

SPOTTER!

Sends a shudder up yer rudder, doesn't it?


B
T

 

[Dudleydoright]

Synthetics

Another point against synthetics that was amply illustrated to me as a young soldier was that synthetics and heat / fire do not mix. If you have a tent fire or a stove flameup, your synthetics will melt and stick to your skin. That holds the heat against your skin longer and removes a lot of skin when they have to tear the re-cooled nylon etc from your skin where they have merged together. You don't have that with natural fibres.

Whilst in Canada i was amazed that the Canadian Army issued a white nylon balaclava. If that caught fire you would be in deep poo. I used to use either wool or a fireman's nomex balaclava.

DDR

 

[H.Johnson]

46 chest, thank you for asking.

Best of luck there, then. You see the Moorlander in Small from time to time and even Medium occasionally (I know where there is one for sale at the moment), but I've haven't seen one bigger than that since I used to schedule production of them...and even then we didn't make many in Extra Large* size.

* Those are 1970s sizes BTW, go down a size for 2000s sizing. 46 would be an Extra Large.

 

[Creeping Past]

Thanks for that, HJ.

That's the green light for me to get a version made up in ventile.