A-2 Sleeve Length (too short?)

[gliderace]

I have a wonderful Gibson and Barnes A-2 Horsehide in russet that is fantastic. I've worn it only about three times and it is "mint." The only problem (or maybe it is not a problem) is that the sleeve length seems to be a TAD short.

I've read the thread(s) regarding armpit holes (embiggening and rising), and I completely agree. I think that having the armholes located a little bit higher and not as roomy would be truer to the old form. But I digress...

In any event, the sleeves end of the leather (not the end of the knitting) hang just right at my wrist when my arms are straight down, standing at attention as it were. The knitted cuff is fine and does not "tunnel" inwards, which I do like.

The main problem, the meat of this thread, is that the sleeves do ride back on my arms whenever I am holding a yoke or steering wheel. If I raise my arms above the shoulders, they positively come back to 3/4 of my arm length! ...Is this a normal look? Is this desired? I am trying to find some good, old photos of A-2s in action and want to see what a good sleeve length is like. It is FINE with my arms down at the side...unfortunately, I cannot spend my time in that stance.

Thoughts? Do I just live with it? Sell it and try again? Am I making a russet mountain out of a molehill? Does any of this make sense or resonate?

Thanks in advance.

[NOTE: I will post pics, here, as I think prose does not do it justice, but some of you jacket-savvy folks probably will get the gist]
[NOTE 2: I would have had the jacket re-done at G&B (nice lot, there, really), but right after I got it last year, I was deployed and didn't get back "into" it until just now; thereby falling out of their grace period]
[NOTE 3: I actually do wear this in the cockpit, as I am a pilot and fly for a business...With my arms on the control yoke, the sleeves do come back and expose only 2mm of the underlying shirt]

 

[aswatland]

If you look at wartime pics the sleeve length of A2s varied enormously. There's an interesting picture of Robert Morgan with his arms down and the knits ending just above the wrist! This was not typical as he was a tall man with long arms and really needed a bigger A2.

If the leather on your sleeves ends at the wrist they should be fine. It is normal for the sleeves to ride up your arm a bit when driving a car or flying a plane. If you had longer sleeves they may tunnel which does not look right IMO.

 

[GHQ1]

AN-J-3?

I'm an aesthetic A-2 fan . . but I have a G&B ANJ-3 which is pretty much A-2 up front and G-1 behind . . . Someone around here or maybe one of those jacket people . . .has one in horse . . . .

I have long arms so favor the bi-swing back . .

 

[Fletch]

There is a problem inherent to the wearing of flight jackets. If there's anything wrong with the way they fit or look - even a little thing - it becomes something you just can't get over. The nature of the beast is to cause obsession to the point of distraction.

 

[Klemmi]

I will post pics

:coffee:

 

[Giben]

I dont believe it I am having the same problem I searched the fourm for hours months ago with no luck and I couldnt find the time to make a proper post.

 

[GHQ1]

Gliderace posted a measured photo

in this thread:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?p=891702#post891702

 

[gliderace]

Wup! Yep.. er hehe: yes, that is my pic above... thanks for referencing it! I posted it, but on another thread. Sorry and thanks, mate.

Yes, the sleeves hang fine when my arms are down, but ride up when elevated anywhere above, oh, 80 degrees or so.

The measurements, above, are for the jacket laid flat. They are from seam middle to end of knitted cuff, where applicable. The shoulders are end of seam to end of seam.

 

[Klemmi]

is that the sleeve length seems to be a TAD short.

I mean a pic where you wear the jacket...

 

[gliderace]

Right you are, right you are.
Now that I think of it; that makes the MOST sense, ha!

Oh this weighs on the brain. No less than two A-2s and I'm still not quite happy. I'll run out of sheckles before I get the right one.

Or...maybe I just have to decide to -make- this one the right one. Hm.

 

[Mike K.]

THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM!!!

With the exception of a few A-2 makers that use original patterns, most modern copies have two inherent and inter-related flaws. First is the much-discussed arm hole size. The second relates to the angle at which the sleeve attaches to the jacket body. With a smaller armhole the sleeve can be attached at an angle more perpendicular to the body. However, with the larger armhole this cannot be done without producing a baggy fold in the undersleeve area. Jackets with larger armholes must attach their sleeves at a downward angle. As long as you keep your arms at your side, the look and fit is okay. But, I'm guessing (based on personal experience) that as you raise your arms, not only do the sleeves ride up, but the entire jacket as well. If zipped, the whole thing rides up your ribs.

If you have already purchased multiple A-2s and still aren't happy, my recommendation is to stop wasting your money and get a Good Wear jacket. They are worth every extra dollar! I don't have a picture that I can post just yet but on my Werber reproduction, not only are the armholes smaller/higher, but the sleeves do not attach at such an awkward down angle. As a result, I can drive a car without any sleeve ride-up and can easily reach overhead in the cockpit.

 

[regius]

modern A2 sleeve girth and mobility issues

With the exception of a few A-2 makers that use original patterns, most modern copies have two inherent and inter-related flaws. First is the much-discussed arm hole size. The second relates to the angle at which the sleeve attaches to the jacket body. With a smaller armhole the sleeve can be attached at an angle more perpendicular to the body. However, with the larger armhole this cannot be done without producing a baggy fold in the undersleeve area. Jackets with larger armholes must attach their sleeves at a downward angle. As long as you keep your arms at your side, the look and fit is okay. But, I'm guessing (based on personal experience) that as you raise your arms, not only do the sleeves ride up, but the entire jacket as well. If zipped, the whole thing rides up your ribs.

If you have already purchased multiple A-2s and still aren't happy, my recommendation is to stop wasting your money and get a Good Wear jacket. They are worth every extra dollar! I don't have a picture that I can post just yet but on my Werber reproduction, not only are the armholes smaller/higher, but the sleeves do not attach at such an awkward down angle. As a result, I can drive a car without any sleeve ride-up and can easily reach overhead in the cockpit.

this thread is probably the most spot on (for my concerns and a lot other users) I have ever found on this forum, man, you pin pointed the heart of the issue and phrased it beautifully. I have a Willies and Geiger and several current Orchard A2, these are nicely cut military fit with slimmer arms, great sleeve to body angle, and hence, more mobility. I also had a US Authentic, thick horsehide, larger armholes, and I just could not bear the constant distraction whenever I move my arms.

 

[ButteMT61]

Yep, the arms are the most important piece of the proper fit. If you have a "normal" body, it's probably not as bad, but if you are not the average person, getting a well-fitting jacket is a bear. I reckon the reason most of the US makers of military or military inspired jackets use the full cuts in due to this. If you make it full or blousy, you can cover many more body types and sizes. It's lazy, but pretty much all you can do for off-the-rack gear.
Custom is the only way to go if you want perfect fit. BUT - give accurate numbers to the makers. Don't fudge or second-guess them because you put the makers at a disadvantage. Be accurate, and let them do their thing. If you have something that bugs you - for me, it's sleeves that are too short - tell them up front!