A-2 Jacket patching question

[reflected]

Dear all,

First, I would like to tell you how glad I am to have found your most wonderful community. I'm not that much of an expert of WWII clothing, I'm just a big admirer of those men in the early 40's. I already own an RAF Irvin jacket (from whatpriceglory), and I just love it. It can be seen on my avatar.

The reason why I've opened this thread is that I need your advice. I've just bought an A-2 jacket replica and I'm planning to patch it with the following ones (yes, it's going to be a Memhis Belle jacket )

-a 324TH/91BG patch (the one with the rabbit with a bomb) - to the left chest just above the pockets

-a leather name tag just above it:

-An air force patch like this (pictures are only samples, not the actual ones)

My question would be:
-Where does this latter one go? To the left or the right shoulder?

-Would it be historically correct to use this one instead?

Thank you very much for your help in advance!

Greg

 

[priestyboy]

The AAF HQ (star and wings) patch could only go on the left sleeve. The right sleeve is reserved for the combat unit last served in and the whole AAF HQ didn't deploy. Most correct would be the 8th patch (star wings and circle on top of star) on the left sleeve.

You'd find some post war jackets with the 8th on the right sleeve and HQ on left but for the Memphis Belle look, just forget the HQ patch.

The name tape goes on the left breast (left as you are wearing it) and the rabbit patch on the right breast (as you are wearing it).

Hope this helps

 

[Atticus Finch]

Hi Greg,

As to the Army Air Force roundel, it goes on the left sleeve---but it should be a decal, not a cloth patch. Cloth patches such as you show in your post were placed on cloth jackets. Decals, or transfers, were used on A-2s and other leather jackets.

Reproduction USAAF decals can be purchased at this site:

http://www.mash-japan.co.jp/moc/collection/aaf_decals_wet/index.html

AF

 

[reflected]

Thank you for your replies.

As for the Rabbit patch, I've found a picture, where it's clearly visible. it's right under the name tag on the left chest.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Memphis_Belle_crew.jpg

As for the AAF decal/patch: I know the decal would be the best option, I'm just a bit afraid of spoiling it..
Is it very hard to apply? Has anyone of you tried it?

In addition, I already have a 8AAF patch. Would it be that bad if I used that one?

Thanks,
Greg

 

[JoshK]

Does anybody actuallyhave a picture of a AAF Decal in use on a A-2 during WW2 overseas?

In all the pictures I've seen of the flgiht crews overseas they are noticiably not present.

-Josh

 

[reflected]

I've noticed that too JoshK, it's very interesting.

Nevertheless, I found some pictures of an A-2 used by the 5th AAF which has a cloth AAF patch on its left shoulder:

http://snyderstreasures.com/images/usmilitaria/uniform/UniformA2JacketF.jpg

http://snyderstreasures.com/images/usmilitaria/uniform/UniformA2Jacket5thPatch.jpg

 

[Atticus Finch]

Does anybody actuallyhave a picture of a AAF Decal in use on a A-2 during WW2 overseas?

In all the pictures I've seen of the flgiht crews overseas they are noticiably not present.

I've noticed that too JoshK, it's very interesting.

Nevertheless, I found some pictures of an A-2 used by the 5th AAF which has a cloth AAF patch on its left shoulder:

http://snyderstreasures.com/images/usmilitaria/uniform/UniformA2JacketF.jpg

http://snyderstreasures.com/images/usmilitaria/uniform/UniformA2Jacket5thPatch.jpg

U.S. leather flight jackets during WWII (including A-2s) didn't have USAAF decals until after the war began. Sometime after the AAC became the USAAF, the wings and star began to appear on A-2s. Most of the jackets I've seen bearing the decal were A-2s that had been re-dyed during the war and then returned to service.

I have seen cloth patches on the sleeves of A-2s, such as the one you show in your post, but they are generally unit patches. The jacket you show has a 5th Airforce patch on the sleeve and there is some chance that it has been sewn directly over the jacket's USAAF roundel---as was common practice of the day.

As to "correct" patching of WWII jackets...there really weren't many strict rules back then...at least not at the beginning of the war. There are examples of A-2s with cloth unit patches placed on either side of the chest. There are examples with unit patches on the sleeves. There are examples bearing patches made of leather and, of course, many examples have insigna painted directly onto the jacket's shell. Perhaps the best way to insure the "proper" patching of your jacket is to find a photo of an original A-2 that you like and simply copy it, patch for patch.

BTW, here's a place to visit if you would like to speak with some folks who know a great deal about WWII leather flight jackets.

http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/

AF

 

[HoosierDaddy]

It's my understanding that the wing and star headquarters 'decal' wasn't used until the latter years(or year) of WW2.
In the Euro theater 'painted leather'...'bullion'(silver/gold metal wire sewn into cloth)..and sometimes incised AAF roundels were also used...positioned on the left upper sleeve of the A2. It was also common for 8th AAF or other designated airforce roundels to be used instead. 'Cloth' wing & star were also used..although more common on cloth fabric uniforms and jackets.
The south Pacific theater used 'Bullion" wing & star on left shoulder....but when including CBI shield...the wing & star was positioned on "right"upper sleeve...with shield on left. 'Leather layered' roundels and shields were common and seemed to be exclusive to the south Pacific.
Although the above discriptions seemed to be the norm....I agree...it wasn't necessarily set in stone. Variances can be seen in photos of that period.
HD

 

[Atticus Finch]

Does anybody actuallyhave a picture of a AAF Decal in use on a A-2 during WW2 overseas?

In all the pictures I've seen of the flgiht crews overseas they are noticiably not present.

-Josh

Hi Josh,

Just a couple of shots of the USAAF decal on leather, but I think that you're correct in that more jackets seem to lack the decal than have it.

And here are some examples of the use of cloth patches. The first is cloth on cloth. The second is the 8th Airforce roundrel on an A-2.

AF

 

[HoosierDaddy]

..BTW...I agree that the wing & star..or 8th roundel should normally go on left upper sleeve(as you are wearing it)...and that leather namestrip should go on left upper chest...but...bomber squadron patch should go under nametag(above left pocket) as illustrated in A2 photo of my jacket.....

 

[reflected]

Thank you for the pictures, they helped me a lot!

Might I ask another question? It's closely related to the first one, but also something entirely different:
Hypotethically, would a good painter be able to paint such a nose art on the back of my jacket?

I mean is there any special technique, or all you need is to be a good artist?

Thanks

 

[HoosierDaddy]

In my view...the painter would certainly need to be a good artist to accomplish the jacket art that you have pictured. Remember,though,many WW2 airfield or local painters were not necessarily good artists...and much of that era's authentic jacket art often reflects a much more crude style. Paints used then were oil based....where modern painters tend to prefer acrylic paints that are water based and more flexible to prevent cracking that would eventually happen to actual WW2 jacket paintings.
HD

 

[HoosierDaddy]

BTW...many artist draw the actual scene on trasfer paper for better detail,size and position..then transfer to the leather before painting.
HD

 

[LHR]

FYI, and for those in the States, Garcia Aviation appears now to have a more-correct version of the jacket decal in stock. Their old one was, um...not quite right; this one, I could live with.

DECAL

 

[Gene]

FYI, and for those in the States, Garcia Aviation appears now to have a more-correct version of the jacket decal in stock. Their old one was, um...not quite right; this one, I could live with.

DECAL

I have that decal on my A-2, it worked great and looks good, the only thing I can nitpick about is the lettering is a bit too thin and not bold enough. Other than that I think it looks great.

Oh and by the way, the group patch was on the right breast, squadron on the left according to regulations, but the AAF guys followed anything but regulations!

Gene

 

[James Miller]

Hand painted Squadron Patches/ Nose Artr

Here are some patches and a few jackets to referance www.usbomberjackets.com this is not a pitch. just to look at

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Thank you for the pictures, they helped me a lot!

Might I ask another question? It's closely related to the first one, but also something entirely different:
Hypotethically, would a good painter be able to paint such a nose art on the back of my jacket?

I mean is there any special technique, or all you need is to be a good artist?

Thanks

I did this once,(can do it again if you are interested, no problem.) PM me for specifics if you like. I might be able to paint one for you if time permits, I just recently moved and I am still busy settling in, but I do have some free time now and then and like painting A2 nose art. It's a sort of fun break from "ordinary" art work.

[/IMG]

 

[Edward_Lindey]

Those are some nice looking A2s. Mine is set up as a soldier in the 101st. It used to be tradition that paratroopers "Borrowed" jackets and put there emblems on em. There is a real nice one that my jacket is based on in the Ft Campbell museum. The only diference is I put my rank and name and added a 506th patch.

Edward

 

[John Warr]

Jacket patching

I have an original jacket here that only has the two badges shown. There is no sign that any other badges have been on there in the past.

(It has been relined at some stage)

Hope that helps

 

[kampkatz]

The presence of the fly snap at the bottom would indicate this is not an original A2, but a repro. Still, not a bad looking jacket from the front.