A-2 from Australia V505 Size 40

[Lt GUSTL]

Servus from Vienna,

after hours and hours searching for some information about the Australian A-2, the V505, i decided to start a thread here.

I hope to get more information about this jacket than in the book
"American Flight Jacket, Airmen & Aircraft" by J. Maguire / P. Conway, p. 109.

Was the V505 a standard garment in the Australian air force? ..

Back:

Tag:

Collar:

Zipp:

Back of Zipp:

kindest regards

 

[aswatland]

What a good idea to start a thread about this jacket. I have always understood they were made for the USAAF stationed in Australia rather than for the RAAF itself. The Zipp brand of Zipper is possibly a replacement, judging by the difference in stitching between the zip and the stitching at the bottom of the leather reinfocement tab? However it is Australian made so it may well be original to the A2 with the often seen variation in the stitch length. Very nice jacket BTW.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

That zip is extremely interesting. ZIPP was a German company. Apparently it had an Aussie subsidiary …

bk

 

[Fletch]

Servus back at ya Herr Leutnant -

Have you visited the Vintage Leather Jacket Forum yet? They have this discussion of the V505.

It seems the code number was not for the jacket, but for the contractor that made them (they also made gloves with the same number).

No info about whether either item was issued to anybody, or was a private purchase item.

 

[BellyTank]

It is a very Australian military style label-
similar to others I've seen.

1943... and when was it the USAAF discontinued/ceased manufacture of the A-2..?


B
T

 

[aswatland]

It is a very Australian military style label-
similar to others I've seen.

1943... and when was it the USAAF discontinued/ceased manufacture of the A-2..?




B
T

The order was issued in 1943 to discontinue the A2, but production continued into 1944 with further orders being placed. There is a document dated 13 June, 1944, from Maj. Gen B.E. Meyers, Office, Assistant Chief of Air Staff, Materiel, Maintenance and Distribution shows which the following orders for A2s:

Perry Sportswear, Newburgh, New York, Jacket, leather, Type A-2 25,000
J.A. Dubow, Chicago, Ill Jacket, Leather, Type A-2 35,000

There were also orders placed for B-10s and B-15s on the same document.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

More on the zipper. If anyone's seen the Lightning zippers used on middle 50s Austalian short jackets, the stopper box is essentially identical in shape to the one seen on the ZIPP above. The Lightning one is a bit fancier, but essentially the same.

Extremey interesting.

bk

 

[BellyTank]

I recently saw a rack full of those short, khaki jackets at a Surplus shop in Auckland- they had cast zip stopper boxes. The example above is folded.
Not doubting you, Baron- just remembering what I noted.
Almost bought one of the 36" chest jackets for the zip.


B
T

 

[Baron Kurtz]

No probs. The lightning stopper box on those jackets - i've owned 4 - is indeed cast; i was referring to the general shape. Maybe the ZIPP example is a knock-off? I mainly find it intersting that ZIPP may have had an Antipodean subsidiary. My recent discovery (assumed) of Lightning's Spanish subsidiary - "Relampago" - has me on the hunt for worldwide subsidiaries.

bk

 

[Windsock]

Servus from Vienna,

after hours and hours searching for some information about the Australian A-2, the V505, i decided to start a thread here.

I hope to get more information about this jacket than in the book
"American Flight Jacket, Airmen & Aircraft" by J. Maguire / P. Conway, p. 109.

Was the V505 a standard garment in the Australian air force? ..


kindest regards

Hi Gustl, i've been trying to research this as well (as an Aussie with an A-2 fettish) but with similar lack of luck. Great photos, are they yours and is this your jacket?

I can only concur with the others, unfortunately whilst the RAAF got the US aircraft they didn't get the jackets, for instance even though for a period of time the 380th BG (B-24's) was under the control of the RAAF and there were many Crews that were a combination of AAF and RAAF personnel and others that were exclusive but flew the same planes on consecutive days. I've never seen a shot of any RAAF personnel wearing an A-2, it would not have conformed to dress regs.

Here's an American Crew

Same plane, (probably same time) it's Australian Crew (no A-2's )

This jacket and the few other examples that exist were just theatre made by the private Contractor who's name was coded as V505 (for secrecy, but the "V" does stand for Victoria the State the Company was located in, of which Melbourne is most likely the City it was located). Unfortunately I haven't been able to identify which Company that was yet- but i'm hoping to at some time.

The label is a standard non descript type used on other items for the military and was probably just used in this case for the sake of a label as by the time they made these jackets the original descriptive makers labels had been replaced for all other items these factories produced. I have both Staggs and Lasicas labelled flying helmets from 1942 and the labels were basically the civilian types. After 1943 they appear with coded labels.

The gloves mentioned in Fletchs post are mine and have the same label, and I believe the maker was either Stagg or Lasicas, both glove makers both of whom made our leather Type B flying helmets. since they were leather workers i believe that the A-2's were made to order for AAF individuals who either lost, did not have or just wanted their own jacket- so they are just private purchase jackets.

I don't know if the Zipp brand is a subsidiary or not, but it is very common on gear of that period- for example as mentioned the type B helmets from both makers all have Zipps made by them. By the way, do you know what type of snaps the jacket has? Ring snaps were very common on gear here at the time and they were all by Carr Australia and it's stamped on the inside ring.

Great stuff, thanks for posting this, perhaps we will piece something together! If this is your jacket i'd love to hear where you got it from.

 

[Windsock]

I meant to add, as these are the clearest and most detailed photos i've seen of a V505 jacket it gives a better chance to guess at the leather type.

It's been suggested that they possibly used goat but this doesn't appear to be pebbly enough to be goat (could well be wrong)- i'd guess that it was probably also horsehide as this probably would have been just as plentiful here, or possibly cowhide. I really doubt it was anything more exotic.

Any other guesses?

 

[Lt GUSTL]

Servus from Vienna,

dear gentleman, thank you very much for your reply.

Hi Gustl, i've been trying to research this as well (as an Aussie with an A-2 fettish) but with similar lack of luck. Great photos, are they
yours and is this your jacket?

Yes, its mine. I bought it from a gentleman from Germany.
I asked the seller for more information, but got none until today - SORRY !

Once there where LT bars on the shoulder epaulettes and two patches on the front.
A bigger one on the left side (the patch had a small bulge in the lower left area - near the flap) and on the right side there was smaller one.

It's been suggested that they possibly used goat but this doesn't appear to be pebbly enough to be goat (could well be wrong)- i'd guess that it was probably also horsehide as this probably would have been just as
plentiful here, or possibly cowhide.

In my opinion the leather could be HH. The appearance of the leather and its patina is very similar to that of a friend's BRONCO A-2 jacket.

As you told, the snaps are CARR ones.

kindest regards

Here are some additional pictures:

Pocketsnap:

Collarsnap:

 

[Brettafett]

This looks like an Aerial Star.... Or should I say, those Aerial Star repros look eerily similar to this particular A-2... Seems to be a similar cut, collar, etc...

 

[Seb Lucas]

I read and I don't recall where, they were made in Melboune by Stagg out of cowhide - no history of using horse in Australia, and they are very rare. There may well have been an old thread on it on the old VLJF. I think Stagg also made police bike leathers.

 

[dr greg]

I've NEVER seen one, and I've been round the traps here a little bit, great thread....
Lasica's did make jackets though as well as helmets, I have a 3/4 in the shed.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Yeah Doc, these are fabled, mythical A2's which I've heard whispers of over decades and never seen.

 

[Smithy]

Rare as hen's teeth!

Then there's the whispers of Irvin jackets and trousers having possibly been made in ultra small numbers in both Oz and NZ.

 

[Dinerman]

Here's another zipp zippered theatre made A2. Probably made at the end or immediately after the war in Germany.