62 Years ago A Bridge Too Far..

[mikepara]

This week is the 62nd anniversary of Operation Market-Garden better known as The Battles of Nijmegen, Eindhoven and Arnhem [Oosterbeek] 17- 26th September 1944.

The Allied Airborne carpet dropped by the couragous US /RAF Troop Carrier Command and Glider Pilot Regiment laid out for 30 Corps to swarm over.

As we now know didn't work out as planned. Simply put: A poorly planned and supported, foolhardy operation from start to finish.
This however does not diminish the fighting spirit or ability or bravery of every man jack taking part.

The success' of the US 101st and 82d Airborne Divisions was hampered by the SS Armoured Divisions encountered by the poorly supported very lightly armed British 1st Airborne Division [including the 1st Polish Ind Parachute Brigade] and the failure of 30 Corps to advance quickly enough to relieve the Airborne. An impossible task.

Please raise a glass and toast "The Men of Market Garden " from our nations* that made the supreme sacrifice 62 years ago when trying to end the war a year early. Then raise it again for those that came back!

*Holland. United States Of America. United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Poland. Not Forgetting the Men from The Commonwealth Who joined units of the British Army and fought at Arnhem.

Many Germans and their allies also died at these battles any Germans may wish to remember and toast their dead.

MP

 

[Spitfire]

A toast

Right! A toast to the "Men of Market Garden"!

 

[carebear]

To the fallen.

I've wargamed Market-Garden (the GDW double blind board game) with friends and never managed to reach Arnham, and I know what I'm up against going in.

The accomplishments of those men are amazing.

 

[PADDY]

Remember the Pegasus heroes.

Mike, as you know I'm not long back from the Somme area. Plan "A" had been operation Market Garden, but the coy running it scrubbed it at the 11th hour, sadly. Another time.

Glad you flagged this engagement up, as too often now, these things are long forgotten by Joe Public. So thank you.

 

[missjo]

Ive just been to the rememberance at Arnhem, its an hour away from where I live.

One of the main reasons Arnhem failed was because the Allies didnt want to listen to the Dutch resistance that was warning them that the plan wouldnt work.
They knew the road wouldnt be suitable for the reinforcements, they knew about the German strength.
But Montgomery didnt take their commander serious.

Because of the failing of Market Garden the occupation of the Netherlands lasted more then half a year longer, this period was one of the harshest for the civilians in any western country.
Thousands died of hunger.

 

[nightandthecity]

That's very interesting Miss Joeri. I think allied commanders were over fixated on conventional warfare, but then it was what they knew best. They were also suspicious of the leftist bias of the European resistance movements. Because of this they probably made many such errors.

Time and again the resistance showed that a few people could destroy or seriously disrupt factories and installations where allied bombing had failed after great loss of life (and of course expense).

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I have talked to several RAF and AAF veterans who say they worked this one out for themelves during the war, so it shouldn't have been beyond the capacity of the Generals.

 

[missjo]

That's very interesting Miss Joeri. I think allied commanders were over fixated on conventional warfare, but then it was what they knew best. They were also suspicious of the leftist bias of the European resistance movements. Because of this they probably made many such errors.

the majority of the Dutch resistance was not leftist at all and in other countries the allies didnt make this mistake, they even made use of local partisans, including communists.

The Dutch resistance had a commander in chief, Prince Bernhard who has been in exile since 1940, flew allied bomber missions and had been involved in organising the resistance for some time.
By the time information reached him it had already gone trough some checking, but montgomery didnt seem to take him serious.
Either way, regardless of the source of the information, if someone who lives in the area tells you its impossible to have lots of heavy vehicles overtake each other on a certain road, you should at least look into it.

 

[nightandthecity]

The European resistance covered the political gamut - there were even some indigenous fascists who fought against German occupation - but it still had a strong left-wing orientation. The first French resistance groups for example were formed by Spanish Republicans. More to the point, many allied officers and politicians certainly thought it had a leftist bias, and this was bound to affect their attitudes because Revolution often follows war.

It’s true that in many countries arms and training were given to Communist and socialist resistance groups but preference was almost always given to nationalist or the more conservative groups, to the extent of sidelining the most active groups. The only notable exception I can think of is Yugoslavia, where the Communists were the only ones really prepared to fight the Germans.

And I don‚Äôt think anywhere were Resistance forces as fully developed and well employed as they might have been. SOE always claimed that they could achieve better results with just a fraction of the money and effort devoted to aerial bombing in the occupied countries. The success of resistance attacks like Chal?¥n-sur-Saone where bombing had failed seem to bear that out.

Anyway, I'm going to bow out before I get told off for thread drift......

 

[mikepara]

Yes indeed

..Its been well documented over the years just How, why and when the operation failed. Anyone who has ever studied the battle knows the main reason Monty and The Divisional Commanders dismissed the Dutch intel was because this would have been another cancelled Airborne operation. Not because he didn't believe it.

3 Allied Airborne Divisions full of their countries best trained Elite Soldiers where idle, sitting out the war in the UK. They wanted to go.. it may have worked and nearly did.

This thread wasn't meant as a detailed story of Op MG / Arnhem. But as a tribute to those who fought in, and died during the battle. I purposefully included Holland in my list. Every* Dutch man woman and child fought the Germans in their best capacity.

During my time in The Paras I jumped into Arnhem twice and visited most years in September, I never once heard a Dutch person say anything but thank you for trying to the Veterans, and to this day the school children lay flowers on the graves.

*Sadly we know there where Nazis and collaberators in all the occupied lands.

 

[missjo]

..Its been well documented over the years just How, why and when the operation failed. Anyone who has ever studied the battle knows the main reason Monty and The Divisional Commanders dismissed the Dutch intel was because this would have been another cancelled Airborne operation. Not because he didn't believe it.

3 Allied Airborne Divisions full of their countries best trained Elite Soldiers where idle, sitting out the war in the UK. They wanted to go.. it may have worked and nearly did.

This thread wasn't meant as a detailed story of Op MG / Arnhem. But as a tribute to those who fought in, and died during the battle. I purposefully included Holland in my list. Every* Dutch man woman and child fought the Germans in there best capacity.

During my time in The Paras I jumped into Arnhem twice and visited most years in September, I never once heard a Dutch person say anything but thank you for trying to the Veterans, and to this day the school children lay flowers on the graves.

*Sadly we know there where Nazis and collaberators in all the occupied lands.

Absolutely, the veterans are still very much loved here, they keep telling us they dont get a welcome like it anywhere else.
The Dutch went trough hell the last months of the war and will never forget who liberated them.
We take part in the official rememberance of the German capitulation every year, heres a nice photo from last year;

 

[Harp]

Field Marshal Montgomery

It needs to be said that Bernard Law Montgomery grasped
terrain and objective issues associated with 'Market-Garden,'
whose conception was bold, imaginative; and, when considered
with airborne force strike capability, hardly "conventional."
No plan is perfect, and available indigenous partisan estimates
and other intelligence notwithstanding, battles can hinge on
capricious fate. The Allies overreached at Arnhem, but had it
worked, the war would have ended sooner.

 

[missjo]

It needs to be said that Bernard Law Montgomery grasped
terrain and objective issues associated with 'Market-Garden,'
whose conception was bold, imaginative; and, when considered
with airborne force strike capability, hardly "conventional."
No plan is perfect, and available indigenous partisan estimates
and other intelligence notwithstanding, battles can hinge on
capricious fate. The Allies overreached at Arnhem, but had it
worked, the war would have ended sooner.

I think the only real mistake made was the one with using the road for reinforcements, the ground was too soft and the road too narrow, each vehicle broken down would stop the entire convoy and nobody could turn or pass broken down vehicles because of the soft earth.
I wonder if that was something overlooked.

 

[Harp]

I served in the US Army's 101st Airborne, and this battle is still
discussed in barracks, messhalls, company orderly rooms, battalion
hqs, right up to division level. There are no easy answers, but to
the airborne, Arnhem is much more than a crap-shoot. It is a nightmare
that will never go away, for all its gallantry and professionalism, it
failed, and the airborne got it in the neck; so the spectre stays,
and will never disappear.

 

[mikepara]

Pull up another sandbag..

When I was a young green Para drinking in the PRA [Para regimental association] bar I overheard a couple of NCO's bragging about jumping. They'd both jumped 300 + times and where expecting to get the 1000 jump Golden lanyard mark before reaching their 22 year point.

They asked one of the old & bold sitting quietly drinking how many jumps he'd made. He replied with "Seven" The two NCO's started laughing and going on "Only Seven?" The old guy said "Yeah but one of them was at Bruneval and another into Arnhem."

The NCO's bought the guy a pint and left without another word.

 

[FOXTROT LAMONT]

This Armistice Day is all the more sombre with past told this present time. I am in awe reading about people
whose lives are connected to the Second World War and its Great Crusade against tyranny.

 

[Bugguy]

This Armistice Day is all the more sombre with past told this present time. I am in awe reading about people
whose lives are connected to the Second World War and its Great Crusade against tyranny.

Thanks for resurrecting this thread... I hadn't seen it when I posted my Market Garden trip last week. Next year will be the 80th anniversary of the battle.

 

[FOXTROT LAMONT]

Next year will be the 80th anniversary of the battle.

I did my service in the Parachute Regiment and this jump will still be examined for decades.
Consensus is that Nijmegen Bridge bloody damn steel itself should have been the shag drop zone.