50's and 60's fedora lounge?

[Brad Bowers]

Well, how about judging the actions of, say, certain bigoted 1930s Christians by the values of the New Testament? Certainly those values were around in the '30s.


For better or worse, your professor was a moral relativist.

Marc,

As a trained historian and college instructor, I have to offer up a correction to what I perceive to be a misconception.

The professor may or may not be a relativist, but that's not the point he was trying to get across. He was talking to his students about avoiding "Presentism," which is a term historians use to describe the act of judging the past through the prism of our modern values. Presentism is not part of the methodology that historians use. As a human being, it's fine to say that those people were racist, but historians are social scientists, and try to adhere, as much as possible, to scientific practices.

In the study of history, historian judge others in the past within the context of the time and society in which they lived. It does no good to judge others in the past within the context of today, because that's like equating apples and oranges.

For instance, historians aren't saying that the Eugenics movement of the '20s and '30s was okay because those folks in the past were okay with it. It's about understanding the context in which these people lived that enabled these ideas to become as prevalent as they did.

Yes, I've been one to say I hate the Sixties, but that's not the historian in me speaking, it's the conservative.

Brad

 

[Bourbon Guy]

For better or worse, your professor was a moral relativist..

Actually, just the opposite. His point was that it is not the job of historians to judge at all, but to attempt to root out what was happening and why without comment, favorable or otherwise. Some of the attitudes of the 30's may offend our current sensibilities, but they did not just spring up from nothing. Something generated them. What was it?

It's sort of a "walk a mile in another man's shoes" sort of thing, which many here should understand because they do. They bought another man's shoes on ebay, along with his hat, suit, ties and watch.

And with that I will come back to the 60's topic and ask if Jack has found a publisher yet?

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Typing at the same time, Brad said it so much better.

 

[Widebrim]

If the Golden Era was so bad for all the "minorities" it was sure a lot better living in the U.S.A. than living in some gravel cave in Calabria, a dirt floored house in Madeira, or a famine/flood ravaged village in China and Japan. There was a reason why the unwashed came here...

In the long-run, that point has to be heavily considered when discussing the social merits/demerits of the "Golden Age," be it within the context of the United States, Argentina, Germany, or whatever other political unit.

 

[Lincsong]

Can we get back to what this thread was about?; Finding a '50s and 60's Forum. Like anything, there's things I liked about certain things. 60's; I liked the Thunderbirds and Mustangs. 60's Ranch Houses, Batman in Color, Mission Impossible. There's only a couple whack jobs who jump into a thread and categorically wipe an entire decade out like some corner preacher standing on top a fire hydrant. And those are the ones on both the pro and anti side. 70's????? I liked Atari.

 

[Lincsong]

In the long-run, that point has to be heavily considered when discussing the social merits/demerits of the "Golden Age," be it within the context of the United States, Argentina, Germany, or whatever other political unit.

Exactly. Japanese and Chinese living in America at the time had this to consider;

Hmmm I can't own land here, I can't even become a citizen, there are some places I can't live or eat, but if I stay here and make the best of it, I can save some money, educate my kids, when the eldest child who was born in the U.S.A. turns 18 then I can buy land under the child's name. Or I can go back to Japan or China live in a village that gets flooded all the time, has no running water, no electricity, I and/or my children can NEVER own land, my future is determined by a warlord/despot, basically go back to Hell on Earth.

 

[Widebrim]

Getting back to '50s-'60s Fedora Lounge, as Lady Day commented, this forum was originally started with a general time-frame of 1930-45 in mind. As has been stated by others, over time a certain overlap ocurred, which stretched the borders from about WWI to the early-'60s (with even more overlap sometimes). I believe that this is natural and rather realistic, since the characteristics of what we call the Golden Age did not spontaneously appear in 1930, nor suddently disappear in 1945. That's why there has been quite a bit of leeway regarding time periods on the Lounge, resulting in the presence of threads which do deal with the '50s and early-'60s. Yet would a separate '50s/'60s "Stingy Brim" Fedora Lounge be of value? Judging by many of our comments, sure would be! Maybe someone will design and promote one someday...

 

[LizzieMaine]

Indeed....if it were tit for tat...then threads about the 40s would be invaded by those saying 'Man I hated the 40's, they really sucked'...just on principle....

See, that's exactly what I *do* see happening -- if I were to start a thread "I Admire The Golden Era Because..." I'd be willing to bet cash money that within five or ten posts, it'd turn into exactly the same discussion that this one has.

This particular thread got hung up over Artie's post, in which he observed that (paraphrasing) many of us here don't care for the latter part of the sixties because of the change in values of that time. That's not a dogmatic accusation, it's a statement of fact, which seemed to be offered in an attempt to explain why there isn't a lot of later-60s discussion here that isn't critical of that period. But right after that, just like you could set your watch to it, we got the accusations of "romanticising the past."

Anyone here with ten cents worth of brains under their forty-dollar hat knows full well that there were abuses and evils in the Era, but nevertheless, there seems to be a constant need around here to accuse anyone who praises aspects of that culture -- or criticises modern culture -- as being guilty of "romanticising the past," usually in a tone that reeks of "If I had but lived in the days of my forefathers I would not have shared with them in shedding the blood of the prophets." Well, I'm not so sure about that.

In any event, I do agree this has gone way off topic, and apologize for my part in it. It's unfortunate that we can't seem to have this discussion anywhere here without it turning into "I know you are, but what am I?"

 

[Foofoogal]

this forum was originally started with a general time-frame of 1930-45 in mind.

I have been here for what seems forever. Before under another name and until Lady Day stated this about the time frame I never, ever knew that. So some can just be ignorant of the history of this great lounge.
I personally love chatting about any time period and any vintage stuff.

Brad nailed it for me.

 

[Lincsong]

I guess the party games were offensive. [huh]

Strip Scrabble? lol

 

[sixties.nut]

I'm beginning to think

Maybe I picked a bad user ID here lol

Could be why I seem to collect some crickets on my posts.

Ya Think ?

 

[Lincsong]

Nah, welcome. Just dive right in.

 

[Foofoogal]

lol lol lol
welcome.

 

[jamespowers]

This particular thread got hung up over Artie's post, in which he observed that (paraphrasing) many of us here don't care for the latter part of the sixties because of the change in values of that time. That's not a dogmatic accusation, it's a statement of fact, which seemed to be offered in an attempt to explain why there isn't a lot of later-60s discussion here that isn't critical of that period. But right after that, just like you could set your watch to it, we got the accusations of "romanticising the past."

Anyone here with ten cents worth of brains under their forty-dollar hat knows full well that there were abuses and evils in the Era, but nevertheless, there seems to be a constant need around here to accuse anyone who praises aspects of that culture -- or criticises modern culture -- as being guilty of "romanticising the past," usually in a tone that reeks of "If I had but lived in the days of my forefathers I would not have shared with them in shedding the blood of the prophets." Well, I'm not so sure about that.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Getting back to '50s-'60s Fedora Lounge, as Lady Day commented, this forum was originally started with a general time-frame of 1930-45 in mind. As has been stated by others, over time a certain overlap ocurred, which stretched the borders from about WWI to the early-'60s (with even more overlap sometimes). I believe that this is natural and rather realistic, since the characteristics of what we call the Golden Age did not spontaneously appear in 1930, nor suddently disappear in 1945. That's why there has been quite a bit of leeway regarding time periods on the Lounge, resulting in the presence of threads which do deal with the '50s and early-'60s. Yet would a separate '50s/'60s "Stingy Brim" Fedora Lounge be of value? Judging by many of our comments, sure would be! Maybe someone will design and promote one someday...

And going back further in time, in the Western states, many of the original aspects of the "Old West"-- in terms of architecture, way of life, and to some degree, the styles (as everyday living/working attire) - that we associate with its heyday in the 1870s and 1880s survived with little alteration or evolution well into the Golden Era.

And now getting back on tack, I came across this forum that might be of interest to '50s and '60s enthusiasts as it's focus appears to be oriented a bit more to the Atomic Age, though it doesn't appear to be very active as the posts date back to 2008:

http://www.retrotogoforums.com/index.php?board=1.0

 

[Artie]

I started all this? And here I thought I was being oh so tactful in my response.

 

[Wally_Hood]

To be more specific, White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant male. Before and during the "Golden Age," things were not always better for Irish, Italian, Greek, Slavic, Jewish, European Catholic, and other White "ethnics." In all fairness, though, many members of the above groups have provided generally positive accounts of their experiences during that time period, my father included...

Widebrim, you sharpen the focus. The dominant culture for some time was WASP, for both good and bad. I thought of the opening of Our Town where the Narrator points out the parts of town where the various ethnic groups live. He delivers this information as though he were telling us where the city hall was, or where the train station was. It makes you wonder if the "Our" meant WASP Town.

 

[Artie]

Well coming from Chicago this has always been and still is a city of neighborhoods made up of various ethnic identities. Wasp whats that, in all my years in the city I had no concept of that. I grew up in a predominately Jewish area. Taylor street was Italian, Bronzeville was black, Swedes were in Andersonville,the Polish were over on Milwaukee ave. and Germans were in Lincoln square. I never heard the term WASP until I was much older. Their are some who seem to think a certain group had some kind of stranglehold on all of creation, well that just isn't so. I think if anything this thread and from what I gather many others illustrates is the generation gap between those old enough to have actual memories of that time and those who learn about it through the prism of our modern education system. Read some Nelson Algren and get a real feel for what life was like in the big city.

 

[R.A. Stewart]

Maybe I picked a bad user ID here lol

Could be why I seem to collect some crickets on my posts.

Ya Think ?

Let me add as others have, welcome and don't worry about the crickets. I get them too. lol Not that I'm that prolific a poster. I'd guess it's a combination of a lot of conversations going on at once, and people's tendency to interact with people they've got some prior acquaintance with.

Anyway, I see there are Golden Era and WWII subforums; maybe there's room for another to be created.

For what it's worth, I actually was sort of countercultural in the sixties--though I was conservative enough to keep my grades up and work part-time in college and get a job and all afterward. It can seem like an uneasy fit with also valuing the style (and some of the values) of even earlier times, but I'm not confused, and neither am I.

~Rich

 

[Bourbon Guy]

So, getting back to the 60's. This thread alone should keep you busy for a while:

http://clubcad.thecad.net/showthread.php?t=953

And if it holds your interest or generates a thought or comment, sign up and post it.