45ACP Revolvers

[John in Covina]

A question going out to all the Loungers. I know that both Colt as well as Smith & Wessen had produced Moon Clip revolvers for use with 45 ACP cartridges for World War One. (Not sure if one or both are called the M1917?)

Anyway, I also recall that many were said to be great shooters and that they were sought after by the bowling pin shooters long ago. I find the concept intriguing. (Isn't it the revolver Indy tosses into his bag while packing and talking to Brody?)

My questions are:
How are they to shoot?
Preference Colt or S&W?
Any other info on later editions?
(I think S&W did a recent re-release of the M1917?)

Thanks!

 

[Chasseur]

I can't answer the Colt vs. Smith question but I used to have one of those old Webley Mark IVs that had their cylinder cut for the US market and took half or full moon clips with 45 ACP. It worked very well, but I love Webley revolvers. Factory 45ACP was too hot for an old Webley, so reduced handloads work well.

Some observations with using both half and full moon clips. Half moon are easier to put cartridges in the clip and to take empty shells out of the clip. But they are flimsey and bend easy (which is why they are easy to put carts in and out). Full moons are a pain when new to take carts in and out, but are very robust and work very well for fast loading and uploading of the revolution itself. My system was to use half moons for casual shooting and to keep full moons for loading the revolver if you were thinking of self-defence etc.

 

[icemanxxxv]

Smith and Wesson 625

I have in the past owned and shot a S&W 625 45ACP running full moon clips in combat pistol matches a while back. Nice gun good shooter and stainless to boot! They also produced a blued model. Keep an eye open at local gun shows. They are still around although they wern't as popular as 38's or 357's

 

[tecolote]

I've had two of the Colt 1917 for years, one early issue and the other very late in the series. The early gun needed work,and I finally got it done. Both are good shooters and are big enough that recoil isn't an issue. Parts can be had from Jack First Gunshop and Numrich.
Having no experience with the S&Ws, I can't comment on them.

Regards,

Tecolote

 

[PistolPete1969]

I had 2 S&W 1917; they are a BLAST to shoot. They are accurate, reliable, will shoot anything, and are an eyecatcher at the range. They imported a bunch of Brazilian Contract 1917 S7W's a few years back. There you can find periodically cheaper than the military/civilian models

S&w recently reintroduced both the 1917 & 22-4 models. There are both 45 acp revolvers. They are both available currently.

In short, they are fun to shoot. I sold both of mine and regretted it immediately.

Pete

 

[carebear]

Colt more or less destroyed their civilian handgun division in the '80s/'90s. They have yet to really decide to reenter the market in any seriousness, last time I checked they were only making 1911's and 1873 Single Action Army revolvers and were inordinately proud of them price-wise. At this point they are just trading on the brand name, not any particular notability of the guns themselves compared to the competition.

Anyway, Smith N-Frame .45 ACP's in stainless were big bowling pin and PPC guns, the model number is/was 625. They won't look "Indy" or vintage but they are great shooters.

If you want to be ultra-stylish (if perhaps not as speedy on the reload) you can load up .45 Auto Rim brass and dispense with the moon clips.

 

[Marlin Fan]

Curret .45 ACP

The classic S&W Model 1917 is still manufactured. They are great to shoot compared to small frame 1911s.

These can usually be found somewhat cheaper. Try these links:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57779_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57779_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

I'm given to understand on Bullseye-L that .45 autorim is currently available from Starline brass after being unavailable since 2008. No clue personally if this is true or not, I only own 1911's.

Later

 

[DerMann]

I cannot support the sale of Webley service revolvers, of any Mark, that have been castrated to fire .45 ACP, it's like the Enfield SMLEs that look all sorts of wrong firing 7.62NATO.

The S&W 1917 hand ejector is a fantastically fine firearm. Rugged, simple, appealing design, and ammo is cheap, just don't fire hot loads out of them. They aren't exceedingly hard to find as long as you have the cash to throw at them.

 

[Sam71]

Both the Colt and S&W M1917s are great revolvers

I have 5 Colts and 1 of the S&Ws. Both are very sturdy and accurate. The Colts are said to have larger grips and a longer trigger reach, although I have average sized hands and I can use them just fine. The S&W has a lighter, smoother trigger pull and is much easier to work on (or find gunsmiths to work on). The Colts are actually sturdier, but larger and heavier. Colt stopped making the M1917 in 1917, and ceased production of the "New Service" model, which the 1917 was based on, in 1945. S&W ceased M1917 production for the US Army in 1917. They made another run of them in 1937 for the Brazilian armed forces. They continued production for the civilian market up through the early 60's (maybe later, I'll have to go look it up.) A shooter grade Colt 1917 will run you at least $500, for that price condition will be fair to very good. The S&W is a bit more expensive, but you can usually find the Brazilian version for less cash than the US Army model. The civilian models are way expensive as S&W didn't make many of them. All three of the S&W versions are essentially identical except for markings and level of finish. I've shot both of them, recoil is relatively mild, accuracy is good (given the limits of the small fixed sights and heavy double action trigger pull, and double action revolvers should always be fired double action) and they're durable and fun to shoot. Full moon clips are the way to go, as they're more durable, and the half moon clips are getting harder to find. You can get these nifty tools to load and unload the clips easily.

For DerMann, you probably already know about it, but Apex Gun Parts have a really good selection of Webley MK.VI parts, including .455 cylinders and barrels. Now you can put those shaved .45acp Mk.VIs back the way they're supposed to be. Get 'em before they're gone!

 

[Story]

I cannot support the sale of Webley service revolvers, of any Mark, that have been castrated to fire .45 ACP,

There's also a safety issue : .455 Webley CUP is 11,000 CUP to 12,500 CUP Max.
.45ACP is 16,800 CUP for ball FMJ IIRC and 21,000 CUP Max.

 

[plain old dave]

Good thread. My .02: Smith and Wesson with .45AR ammo. For some reason, 1917s seem to shoot .45AR more accurately.

 

[Atinkerer]

I have a SAA copy that came in 45 Colt, but I changed it to fire 45 ACP. Now that it's a 45 ACP it's fun to shoot and much easier to find ammo for.

Tony

 

[Rathdown]

I hesitate to resurrect a nearly year old thread... but not for long. As a just-as-much-fun option to the 1917 S&W and Colt revolvers, let me suggest the .38 caliber alternative to these .45 caliber big bore brutes: The S&W Military & Police revolver (also known as a Model 10) and the Colt Police Positive are visually nearly identical (both are slightly smaller that their .45 caliber siblings), and fire the far less expensive .38 Special round. Both were mainstays of law enforcement, gangsters, and the military during the Golden Era of Sam Spade, Don Winslow, and just about every adventure and detective movie shot in Hollywood. Unlike the bigger .45s, you won't have to rob a bank to buy one. Good shooters can be had from $350-$500, whereas a comparable .45 revolver will knock most of the spots off a grand.

 

[Kirk H.]

Colt more or less destroyed their civilian handgun division in the '80s/'90s. They have yet to really decide to reenter the market in any seriousness, last time I checked they were only making 1911's and 1873 Single Action Army revolvers and were inordinately proud of them price-wise. At this point they are just trading on the brand name, not any particular notability of the guns themselves compared to the competition.

Anyway, Smith N-Frame .45 ACP's in stainless were big bowling pin and PPC guns, the model number is/was 625. They won't look "Indy" or vintage but they are great shooters.

If you want to be ultra-stylish (if perhaps not as speedy on the reload) you can load up .45 Auto Rim brass and dispense with the moon clips.

I agree with you about Colt. In talking with a Colt rep at the NRA show he mentioned that they were looking at bringing back the Detective Special again.

Back to the original question. I have shot an original S&W 1917 that one of my friends has. It was his grandfathers. It is a great shooting revolver. The size helps with the felt recoil. I also own several K-frames (Model 10's and 64'S and 65's) The old pencil barrel model 10 is a great revolver to shoot and the ammo is a lot cheaper than 45 ACP.

Kirk H.

 

[Renault]

There's also a safety issue : .455 Webley CUP is 11,000 CUP to 12,500 CUP Max.
.45ACP is 16,800 CUP for ball FMJ IIRC and 21,000 CUP Max.

Thank you Story!!!!!!! I was just about to post the same. I've seen too many MkII's thru VI's with cracked recoil shields, as well as just being plain rattled to pieces from shooting factory .45 ACP in these old guns.

Fellas handload your ACP's down to the older .455 pressures. On another note, Wifey picked up the old MkII, I had on my workbench yesterday and took it home! I think she snagged the Astra 600 that came in as well!!!!

I'm still hunting a S&W 1917. I'd settle for a Brazilian contract gun. We also had a factory nickel S&W 38/44 heavy duty come in the other smithy snatched up! Has real stag grips. Real classy lookn'.

Renault

 

[J.D. Hunt]

Renault, she seems to do that quite well. As for shooting a shaved Webley, I have fired the 3in colonial service that I sold to our friend Paul, using 45 Auto Rim with 200gr cast lead bullets loaded by a local shop here on the coast with out any problem. JDH

 

[Rathdown]

The really, really, nice thing about a "shooter grade" Smith & Wesson 38/44 Heavy Duty revolver is that it can be safely re-chambered to accommodate any number of calibers (if you've got the dosh). .357 Magnum is the obvious, but .38/40, .44/40, .44 Special, .45ACP, and .45 Long Colt are all do-able.

There is something special about N-frame Smiths...

 

[Renault]

"There is something special about N-frame Smiths..."

Absolutely!!!! I'd love to find a nice 4" .44 Special, with say an old Threepersons rig !!!!!

 

[DeaconKC]

Okay, having owned and shot both of the 1917s, Colt and Smith, it really comes down to personal preference. Both were built by two of the world's premier gunmakers at their prime. The .45 Auto Rim was brought out in the 20s by Remington so they can be used without the moon clips. Ammo is still produced sporadically and is still easy to find. Reloading data is the same as for .45 ACP. If reloading you will have to have a special holder, as the rim is much thicker than normal to make up for the moonclip thickness.