30s-50s British Suit Trouser photo resource

[Baron Kurtz]

agreed, they do nothing. I had the notion that they were present because the front and back panels wear exactly the same (except the fly portion) to reduce the cost of cutting and reduce the difficulty of construction: it's be easier to join together 4 of "part 1" than to remember which as part 2, 3, 4 etc, and where they had to go . . .

5000 posts. I need a job . . .

bk

 

[cookie]

Good Day All
Thought i would post some images of one of my suits that is quite unusual. Its a Tweed 3 piece windowpane overcheck and although bespoke there doesn't appear to be a makers label. I'm guessing its 40's or 50's. The main reaosn for this message is the style of the trousers. Obviously from an equestrian background as thy have a Drop Front similar to Jodhpurs. Quite unusual an interesting.
The trousers have a 4 button fly closure but also 2 retaining buttons each side on the waistband. Add to that the brace buttons fitted externally and it all adds up to quite a few buttons to look after. Try that when you are drunk!!
Kind Regards

RBH

That be a T'orn proof RBH?

 

[BellyTank]

Re: rear pleats again...

agreed, they do nothing. I had the notion that they were present because the front and back panels wear exactly the same (except the fly portion) to reduce the cost of cutting and reduce the difficulty of construction: it's be easier to join together 4 of "part 1" than to remember which as part 2, 3, 4 etc, and where they had to go . . .

5000 posts. I need a job . . .

bk

The rear pleats do/did serve a purpose.
The early WW2 trousers have deeper, longer, more distinct rear pleats when compared to your '50s.
As front pleats allow more hip and thigh room, whilst maintaining a clean line and relatively flat, non-billowing front, the rears allow the cloth to fall neatly over the rear contour of the trouser filler, like rear darts would AND allow more arse room- you can notice it when wearing them and squatting and bending, etc.
A pleat in this trouser context is after all, effectively, an expandable dart- allows volume control and contouring, yet yields and opens to movement, rather than being merely decorativo, as in other instances.

You may or may not have observed that trouser back panels are generally wider than fronts- you'll notice that if you stretch the leg out across its width, holding the side seams flat in place, that while the front is stretched tight, the back panel may have one, two or more inches of spare, notably fuller at the top/bum and decreasing down the leg- depending on the cut.
Saying that though, in the context of these Army trou' with front and back pleats, you may be correct in your thoughts of fronts and backs not being unique for the sake of cutting room simplicity- and the difference between front and back panel width being accounted for after the fact- in the sewing- seam allowance from the fronts- into the side seams... although then, there would effectively be more cloth wastage than cutting unique front and rear panels. I can see on my pair, however, that the front and rear sets of pleats are at the exact same spot and spacing as the fronts- I think you could have a point, or maybe it's just the way it is/was.

Am I being silly here..?

BK- 5000 posts... I've been here a year more than you and 1000 less posts-
Must be the jo, huh?

Tally ho.

B
T

 

[benstephens]

BT, I think you are possibly right about the reason for rear pleats allowing just that extra bit of room. Your post made me think, and I tend to agree, and the fact the Army would have needed trousers that were slightly less prone to strain from bending, crawling, climbing etc etc, could be the reason to put these small pleats in the back.

My Grandma used to cut battledress etc for the Army Tailors, but unfortunately she can not remember much at all, but I do have some photographs which I will try and dig out of her and colleagues at work, with lots of battledress everywhere.

Ben

 

[BellyTank]

Mr. Ben-

The rear pleats on the early patter pants are the same size as the front pleats.
Hot climate and hard work would be better with roomier trousers.
The arse-relief offered by these trou is very noticeable.
My camera is on holiday today, otherwise I would document it.

I worked in a cutting room too but not in WW2.

Have a great weekend.

B
T

 

[benstephens]

Yes, I have just looked at a couple of pairs of mine, and you are indeed right.

Very interesting point,

thankyou very much,

Ben

 

[herringbonekid]

i wasn't saying that ALL rear pleats are pointless. if they were deeper and below the rear pocket then i'm sure they would provide much 'arse relief' (BT, be careful of the company around whom you utilize that phrase). though i'm not convinced as yet of their visual appeal.

i was referring to BK's pleats shown above.

 

[BellyTank]

Yes, I know-
to all of your points, above.
I was speaking generally of back pleats and specifically of mine.

You really didn't need to mention the A.R.

B
T

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The closure of those Australian trousers.

bk

 

[Kishtu]

I'm not, actually, fixated on trousers, despite appearances...

Does anyone possess a pair of linen trousers - part of a suit or otherwise?

Would be very interested to see images of them, as thinking about lightweight summer wear and happen to have a few dozen yards of linen kicking about the spot.

 

[Aloysius]

When I was in Savile Row last month, I had a great conversation with the tailor at Ede & Ravenscroft, Mathew, who was wearing very classic looking vintage-style trousers. I resolved that if I can ever afford to do so, I'll have him make me trousers like that someday

 

[Aloysius]

Does anyone possess a pair of linen trousers - part of a suit or otherwise?

Would be very interested to see images of them, as thinking about lightweight summer wear and happen to have a few dozen yards of linen kicking about the spot.

I do, in fact. I had them tailored in a fairly thirties style. When I get a chance, I'll post pictures for you.

 

[cookie]

Some CC41 British Duds

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220163900891&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012

 

[silvershadow]

High Waisted Trousers

I love the high waisted trousers look. Unfortunately you're called "Harry High Pants" if you wear them in Australia!

 

[LuckyKat]

The higher the waist the better!
When I'm in Europe, where's a few good shops to find some British Vintage? I want to bring a REAL souvenir home with me!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

You'll be extremely lucky to find good British vintage. You'll need to be of a certain size and endowed with a certain pocket depth. I don't find much this side of the pond. Most of my vintage still comes from the US.

bk

 

[benstephens]

Just found a very interesting pair of British trousers in a magazine from early 1940. They are a pair of flannels with a side zip fastner and adjustable waist band. They are double pleated and made by Hartley, Sons & Co ltd.

When I get a scanner I will make a copy of the advert. I think had I found a real pair I would have assumed they were a larger pair of womens trousers!

Kindest Regards

Ben

 

[Maguire]

I'm frankly shocked suits that high waisted with the "fish tailed" back were around as long as they were, i was completely unaware. Not everyone has a six pack so the high waist is great for those of us without it, besides, as was said earlier, the suits of the time mostly had waist coats, mostly.


Does anyone have any of the "zoot suit" style pants? these date from the same era more or less, would they essentially be the same as these save with a baggier pants look? I always thought the ultra high waist was a trademark of the zoots

 

[BellyTank]

Just found a very interesting pair of British trousers in a magazine from early 1940. They are a pair of flannels with a side zip fastner and adjustable waist band. They are double pleated and made by Hartley, Sons & Co ltd.

When I get a scanner I will make a copy of the advert. I think had I found a real pair I would have assumed they were a larger pair of womens trousers!

Kindest Regards

Ben

Mr. Ben, do you think those trousers were intended for some particular sporting, or other purpose, or just different from the norm?
Cricket? I guess the magazine ad., or the magazine itself would point to any specialised useage, but anyway... just curious, as to this departure.

So they don't have a fly in front, right?


B
T

 

[Creeping Past]

I'm frankly shocked suits that high waisted with the "fish tailed" back were around as long as they were, i was completely unaware. Not everyone has a six pack so the high waist is great for those of us without it, besides, as was said earlier, the suits of the time mostly had waist coats, mostly.

I've recently started climbing into high-waist pants, mainly due to their not being so unflattering as the below-the-belly low-risers. Three pairs now and rising...

Edit: And, BT, since you're posting here, I've a PM pending, awaiting an in-box cull.