1950s Grenfell Cloth shooting/hiking jacket

[BellyTank]

That was an interesting little read.
Now my wife wonders why I have email from the BMJ...


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[Hal]

The tightness of the weave is, in fact, its only weakness (OK, I'm biased) in that it wears at the edges of hems and sleeves. That's another pointer.

That is certainly the case with both of mine.
I also have a cream single-breasted raincoat and a light khaki trench-coat, both bought on eBay. The former has a label "Cordings by Grenfell" while the latter's label has "Harrods by Grenfell". I cannot tell if these are of Grenfell cloth, but they may well be as they are very rain-resistant.

 

[pipvh]

Well, it finally arrived. Alas, it's quite a bit too big for me - too big even to really figure out how it ought to fit - so I'm listing it in the Classifieds here if anyone's interested.

Too bad (for me), as it's a very, very well made piece. The cloth - it's definitely the true Grenfell Cloth - has a beautiful handle. It's also one of the most interestingly pieced-together jackets I've seen, especially around the collar and shoulders. I'd love to give it a spin in the rain but I think I'll leave that for its next owner. If I ever come across one of these in my size I'll be buying it like a shot.

 

[Creeping Past]

Well, it finally arrived. Alas, it's quite a bit too big for me - too big even to really figure out how it ought to fit - so I'm listing it in the Classifieds here if anyone's interested.

First dibs? Does it count here?

Edit: I've just found the dead Ebay listing and see it's a 48. I'm 44 to 46. Dang.

 

[pipvh]

Actually it might fit you, CP - how tall are you? I'm about 5'9 and a half - and a size 42 - and the jacket is for a considerably taller chap. I was optimistic and bought it going by the shoulder measurements, shoulders usually being the problem for me with vintage (too narrow).

 

[Creeping Past]

Actually it might fit you, CP - how tall are you? I'm about 5'9 and a half - and a size 42 - and the jacket is for a considerably taller chap. I was optimistic and bought it going by the shoulder measurements, shoulders usually being the problem for me with vintage (too narrow).

6'4", 20" shoulders.

 

[BellyTank]

Well, it finally arrived. Alas, it's quite a bit too big for me - too big even to really figure out how it ought to fit - so I'm listing it in the Classifieds here if anyone's interested.

Sorry to hear of you bad luck with this one-


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[pipvh]

6'4", 20" shoulders.

CP, you might be in luck. I've posted measurements in the Classifieds, but shoulders are a shade over 20" across, and the length is just over 33" which makes it a three-quarter coat on me, whereas it should, presumably, fit more like a Barbour International or similar.

I've had a closer look at it this morning. Interesting (vented) gussets under the arms, to facilitate lifting a shotgun. Raglan sleeves but with shoulder patches added, so the Raglan is disguised. Fully lined with Grenfell Cloth. One huge poacher's pocket and one smaller pocket inside. Chin strap.

I'm quite frustrated, as this is such a classic bit of kit! But in the immortal words of Battery Sergeant Major Williams: "Oh Dear. How sad. Never mind."

 

[H.Johnson]

Hal,

The diversity of the garments offered by Haythornthwaites over the years amazes me. One of my favourite Grenfell summer walking jackets is modeled on a 1959 Pattern Para smock (minus the knitted cuffs). Sounds crazy, perhaps, but it works. The zip is a RiRi and the snaps (with the griffon logo) are by Prym, which is also surprising.

That is certainly the case with both of mine.
I also have a cream single-breasted raincoat and a light khaki trench-coat, both bought on eBay. The former has a label "Cordings by Grenfell" while the latter's label has "Harrods by Grenfell". I cannot tell if these are of Grenfell cloth, but they may well be as they are very rain-resistant.

 

[BellyTank]

Herr Johnson-
I have a Hunting jacket, by "Cogswell Harrison", London,
which has a RiRi zip.

Don't mention the War...

The cloth in this jacket is VERY fine (magnifying glass to see the weave)and very thin,
double layer. It wets easily. I'm wondering what type of cloth it is.

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[pipvh]

One of my favourite Grenfell summer walking jackets is modeled on a 1959 Pattern Para smock (minus the knitted cuffs). Sounds crazy, perhaps, but it works.

Funny you should say that, Mr Johnson. Apparently a few Denisons were made in green waxed cotton during the war (or so Wikipedia tells us), and just today I was thinking (while up on the Moor) that my favourite walking jacket of times past was a Belgian Denison pattern full-zip smock that I wore until it dissolved. If I could find someone to make me one in Ventile or even waxed cotton, I'd be a happy man.

 

[Mysterious Mose]

Herr Johnson-
I have a Hunting jacket, by "Cogswell Harrison", London,
which has a RiRi zip.

Don't mention the War...

The cloth in this jacket is VERY fine (magnifying glass to see the weave)and very thin,
double layer. It wets easily. I'm wondering what type of cloth it is.

B
T

About the war: Riri website mentions they went back to Swiss around 1936. And that Riri made nylon zips since 1950 and had exclusive rights and patent for 18 years. btw. Edit: I didn't know that.

 

[pipvh]

I expect you all saw this - rather annoyed that I missed it. A private purchase M-421 USMC jacket in Grenfell Cloth, made by Deacon of Canada:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300387928988

I'm not sure if this really is an M-421 - from what little I know (and it's mostly from looking at Japanese repros online), they had a half-belt and no side buckles. But it's a nice, functional jacket, and Grenfell Cloth to boot...

 

[BellyTank]

It's a little similar to an M-421 and some other military jackets
but it is not a military jacket. Canadian manufacture, as you saw.
It's not a WW2 era garment.
M-421s are a little more complicated in construction, including the half belt
you mentioned.
I had one and I do remember it was a very, very finely woven cotton gaberdine twill.

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[BellyTank]

About the war: Riri website mentions they went back to Swiss around 1936. And that Riri made nylon zips since 1950 and had exclusive rights and patent for 18 years. btw. Edit: I didn't know that.

Yes, I know the Swiss connection, just had to say it.
Nylon zips since 1950, eh..?
RiRi were making "plastic" zips- track/teeth/puller/slider during WW2.
Maybe it wasn't nylon it's "catalin", or a similar name.
The style is almost identical to zips they make today.

These plastic RiRi zips were used on cloth flight suits, flight boots,
parachutist smocks... in the second half of the war- the zips were
usually black, or white.

Here's an example:
http://www.rathbonemuseum.com/GERMANY/GERJKT/GERJKT.html

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[H.Johnson]

There is, of course, a long-established connection between Haythornthwaite and Sons and garment manufacture in Canada - ever since the days of Sir Wilfred a lot of Grenfell cloth was sent to Canada as bolts (on the roll) for clothing to be made there.

I expect you all saw this - rather annoyed that I missed it. A private purchase M-421 USMC jacket in Grenfell Cloth, made by Deacon of Canada:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300387928988

I'm not sure if this really is an M-421 - from what little I know (and it's mostly from looking at Japanese repros online), they had a half-belt and no side buckles. But it's a nice, functional jacket, and Grenfell Cloth to boot...

 

[H.Johnson]

Exactly - there is 'nylon' and there are other plastics.
Incidentall, I've never seen an all-plastic RiRi on a Grenfell jacket, has anyone else? Usually they are the metal track and slider/puller with the plastic-covered feed at on the er.... male end.

Yes, I know the Swiss connection, just had to say it.
Nylon zips since 1950, eh..?
RiRi were making "plastic" zips- track/teeth/puller/slider during WW2.
Maybe it wasn't nylon it's "catalin", or a similar name.
The style is almost identical to zips they make today.

These plastic RiRi zips were used on cloth flight suits, flight boots,
parachutist smocks... in the second half of the war- the zips were
usually black, or white.

Here's an example:
http://www.rathbonemuseum.com/GERMANY/GERJKT/GERJKT.html

B
T

 

[H.Johnson]

And strange you should say that, Mr. Pip (weren't you in Great Expactations?) because on my machine table at the moment lies a Belgian Para Smock (Dennison style, half-zip, first pattern) in bits, which is about to serve as a pattern for a...wait for it...Ventile first pattern repro Dennison smock. Great minds think alike (well, almost alike - I prefer the over-the-head jobs to the full zip version. Oh, a compromise is in order. It will have knitted cuffs.

Funny you should say that, Mr Johnson. Apparently a few Denisons were made in green waxed cotton during the war (or so Wikipedia tells us), and just today I was thinking (while up on the Moor) that my favourite walking jacket of times past was a Belgian Denison pattern full-zip smock that I wore until it dissolved. If I could find someone to make me one in Ventile or even waxed cotton, I'd be a happy man.

 

[pipvh]

And strange you should say that, Mr. Pip (weren't you in Great Expactations?) because on my machine table at the moment lies a Belgian Para Smock (Dennison style, half-zip, first pattern) in bits, which is about to serve as a pattern for a...wait for it...Ventile first pattern repro Dennison smock. Great minds think alike (well, almost alike - I prefer the over-the-head jobs to the full zip version. Oh, a compromise is in order. It will have knitted cuffs.

Yes, I was in Great Expectations, though naturally I failed to live up to them.

That is passing strange indeed. Right down to the knitted cuffs - got to have 'em. Ever the obscurantist, what I really like are the first pattern smocks that were customized at the time with a full zip (I can't rationally defend this). Is your Ventile(R) Denison going to be a limited run of one, dare one ask?

Meanwhile, I think I'm going to start a 'perfect walking jacket' thread.

 

[pipvh]

Now then, this is getting peculiar. I thought the image of a Denison lying on your table was a bit Frankenstein's Monster. Lo and behold: on ebay, an 'original 1944' Denison (it's a pullover) made by... P. Frankenstein & Sons.