1930s panama on Ebay went to...

[Panamabob]

I'll count them in two Mondays.

 

[squid]

I'll count them in two Mondays.

A trip to Montecristi is on my list of things to do before I die.

Take lots of pictures. And we (I) want a throught trip report.

 

[Panamabob]

Actually, Montecristi will be the least of my travels. I have lots of hats to pick up, but this trip is mostly to help out at our sister schools in Ecuador.

 

[PutALidOnIt]

Well, Bob, I think that they may have thunk I was a yokel, and not knowing that I am a (former) cosmopolitan native of that great city, that I would be impressed with lotsa naughts behind them thar numbers for them thar hats...don't know if it was the hype or the truth...right up to the point that he picked up my vintage Adam Velva Superiore I had put on a shelf while trying on some other hats, and he started to put it in with his new Borsalinos...I mean the Adam was a cheap hat in the 50's, right?? He said "Oh, is this yours? Oh, that is a nice one...they don't make 'em like that anymore"
...cut to quick attitude change...

Well, I am happy with a couple of your brisas - the best bargain on a tropical everyday hat IMHO...:eusa_clap ...and that's all I have to say about that...

 

[feltfan]

The best weavers might spend 4-5 months on one hat, but it isn't the only hat they are weaving at the time.

Thanks. That's interesting. That *is* a lot of time,
though of course not half a career.

If they lived in California, they wouldn't take a mere
$5000 for 4 months of work...

 

[PutALidOnIt]

How about $5000 a week???

 

[Wild Root]

So tell me, where do you find a ready supply of 1930s or 1940s
Montecristi Panamas with that aged look, a fine Supernatural
sweatband, and a classic period optimo block? Because if you
have a supply at a good price, I'd like to know about it.

Yeah, no doubt man! :eusa_clap That price is CHEAP for a Montecristi of the 30's!!! I've only seen one like it, Art had it for sale and he told me his asking price... I just gently handed it back and said that it was very nice of him to let me handle such a rare vintage item that cost as much as small car! I recall seeing some fine felt hats go for that price... why is this any different? A fine, rare vintage hat is going to cost money no matter what weave count per inch! It goes beyond that when you factor in the age, the condition and the fact that it's a 70 year old hat made of straw!!!

It never ceases to amaze me how some people just don't understand antiques! And then call the people who do idiots... I say, it takes one to know one!

=WR=

 

[Panamabob]

I'd like to see some pictures of the inside of the crown before I say that I believe that it is a Montecristi.

 

[stylinfedoras]

I recently picked up a wide brim Knox straw hat and the more I look at this hat and the other straws I own the less I tend to like Montecristis or Panama's in general. Don't get me wrong I own 3 Montecristis so it is not like I am just being prejudiced because I can't afford to buy one.

I have always received many compliments on all the straws I own cheap ones and or expensive ones the 40's & 50's hats seem to a have a charisma about them that defies description. Straws have a great variety of weaves, variations of color and different colored hat-bands that the Panama's usually don't have. Of course what ordinary straws don't have is a "LEGEND" attached to them. As a consequence one can buy a very high quality straw hat usually much cheaper than most Panama's.

Over this last weekend I took a trip to Long Beach here in LA County and spotted a hat shop downtown that I had never noticed before. I would say their inventory is about as good a selection of new offerings that can be found in the area. There were quite a few straws and some Panama's along with a large quantity of fedoras mostly Dobbs from what I could tell. The point I should make here and a most important one for sure is that they have forgotten how to make a decent straw hat (fedora style).

How much trouble is for these companies to get sample and see what makes a great hat and copy it. For the most part what I saw was not anything I would want to buy. They did seem to have the Frank Sinatra style dialed in though as those hats looked pretty good. But I am not particularly into narrow brims.

Straws are a great hat for summer wear and I cannot stress this enough they look fantastic as long as they are vintage. What more can I say!!

 

[Panamabob]

What I see is that the bigger companies take the lowest dollar hat and make bodies from that. Maybe some of the guys who sell Borsalino and Stetson will chime in. When you take a low dollar raw body and pass it off as perfection, along with a high price, something is wrong. I see those Cuenca Cocoa colored hats and I cringe at what they charge. Same with Borsalino and Stetson for intro quality Brisas.

What takes the cake is when I see hats from Borsalino or Lock & Co. and other "experts" that blatantly say Montecristi on them, yet they are Cuenca hats with the Brisa weave pattern. Now that is ridiculous! When I tell them they are full of beans, I get emails such as this from Lock:

Dear Mr Weber,



We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail of 16th March 2005.



We would advise that all our Montecristi hats are made from genuine Montecristi hoods which carry the authenticating stamp which is stamped on the inside of the crown.

Yours faithfully,


Richard Stephenson

Managing Director

The "authenticating stamp" is only used in Cuenca and is nothing more than a wax seal-type of stamp.



An imposter hat!

 

[Panamabob]

As a consequence one can buy a very high quality straw hat usually much cheaper than most Panamas.

Such as? Enlighten me, please.

 

[stylinfedoras]

Such as? Enlighten me, please.

The most I have paid for a vintage quality straw is $90.00 the rest have been much less. I have found straws at local swap meets, vintage clothing shows and ebay. The variety of styles is beyond belief and many of them unique in their own way. I not suggesting that Panamas are passe only that if someone is on a limited budget that a good vintage straw is a viable alternative.

For me the open weave of many of the styles allows your head to be much cooler on those hot summer days and to be looking good at the same time. Panamas don't usually have ventilated styling and so are much hotter on your head.

And when you are talking quality a good Panama looks considerably better than a cheap one. So put your money where you wish for me my preferrence is for plain straw.

 

[Panamabob]

I guess I'm just not understanding what a "straw" is as compared to a "Panama." Montecristis and Cuenca alike pay the price because a few "experts" charge outlandish prices. The folks here know that you don't have to pay outlandish prices to have a nice hat. When you start talking the fino fino range, then, yes, the hats do cost a bit, but they really do cost hundreds of dollars in Ecuador.

When the likes of the abovementioned hatters push the lowest dollar Brisa hats close to $100.00, then I'll agree, they aren't worth it.

Either way, Cuenca or Montecristi, you'd be pleasantly surprised at what you can really get. These aren't coarsely woven hats, either!

 

[squid]

What I see is that the bigger companies take the lowest dollar hat and make bodies from that. Maybe some of the guys who sell Borsalino and Stetson will chime in. When you take a low dollar raw body and pass it off as perfection, along with a high price, something is wrong. I see those Cuenca Cocoa colored hats and I cringe at what they charge. Same with Borsalino and Stetson for intro quality Brisas.

What takes the cake is when I see hats from Borsalino or Lock & Co. and other "experts" that blatantly say Montecristi on them, yet they are Cuenca hats with the Brisa weave pattern. Now that is ridiculous! When I tell them they are full of beans, I get emails such as this from Lock:

I looked at a new Borsalino Panama in Florence a couple of years ago. It had been lacquered and pressed so flat it felt like a piece of cardboard. The clerk insisted it was from Montecristi. It was an ugly hat, and they wanted 700 Euro.

 

[stylinfedoras]

I guess I'm just not understanding what a "straw" is as compared to a "Panama."

I will try and post some pics tonight to clarify what it is I am speaking of. I lump all sun hats, fiber made cowboy hats (called Shantung Panama's I believe--not sure of spelling) and dress hats that are not specifically Panama's into the catagory of straw hats. So this would include some of the cheapest hats made (like what you might put on a scarecrow) and at the other extreme some much better grade but still not so expensive hats for dress wear.

 

[Panamabob]

I guess I didn't consider lumping paper and rayon hats into the family of a Montecristi or a Cuenca. Panama Hats meaning a Montecristi or a Cuenca made of Paja Toquilla from Ecuador.

 

[stylinfedoras]

I guess I didn't consider lumping paper and rayon hats into the family of a Montecristi or a Cuenca. Panama Hats meaning a Montecristi or a Cuenca made of Paja Toquilla from Ecuador.

I am trying to understand what this place is all about. The name of the forum suggests that the topic is hats which I would imagine would include most styles of hats that people would wear. The fact that many of those hats don't fall into the category of Montecristi or a Cuenca is not much of a surprise to me as many people have different tastes and so therefore the reason for all the various styles available. A hat is a hat no matter what the style. I don't recollect saying that staws or any other type of hat is in the same category as Montecristi or a Cuenca. What I said is that in my opinion some other hats may offer a viable alternative to the expense of buying those hats you speak so highly of. And that in my experience I would prefer to wear my STRAWS in place of my Montecristis.

 

[Panamabob]

I'm not getting angry or anything. I just don't think a rayon or cotton or paper hat is straw. I shall say no more.
fftopic:

 

[squid]

To the non-hat layman "straw" usually means all woven hats that aren't obviously cloth.

Let's see some of those expensive straw hats. I've very curious now.