Native language/dialect...disappearing

[HudsonHawk]

After the recent thread about things that are disappearing quickly, I was struck by a recent article in Texas Monthly magazine about the ever disappearing "Texas German" language. The article was about the language spoken prominently in Texas from the 1830's until the 1920's (a regional dialect of standard or "High" German). While it used to be very common, it's estimated that now only about 3,000 people still speak it, and most of them are 60 or older. Linguists say the dialect will be extinct by about 2040.

At any rate, it got me wondering if there are other languages (or dialects) spoken in other regions that are suffering the same fate. I'm not talking about accents, though there is certainly a move to more non-regional accents spoken everywhere, or even languages spoken by recent immigrants, but rather specific languages or dialects of languages that people outside of that community would not understand, but have been spoken in that community for generations. Another example would be the regional French that you hear everywhere in southern Louisiana. I know there are whole communities in Texas where the residents speak Czech, and even a few where they speak Swedish.

Anyone out there encounter similar examples and/or experiences?

 

[Foxer55]

Yes, proper English is disappearing in favor of Hollywood trash talk, ebonics, Spanglish, and other mumblings.

 

[loosebolts]

California has no dialect to loose. its a shame when things get mottled into one common dialect and the regional flare to language is lost. personally i blame MTV.

 

[HudsonHawk]

California has no dialect to loose. its a shame when things get mottled into one common dialect and the regional flare to language is lost. personally i blame MTV.

Well, I'm not really talking about regional flare, I'm talking about non-English languages that were previously common and spoken. Going back to the Texas example, the Republic of Texas had two official languages; English and German. If you wandered around many towns in central Texas around 1900, if you didn't speak German, you wouldn't understand anyone.

 

[Miss Sis]

Not in the US, but my Father grew up in Holland speaking a local dialect (Groniegens) within his family. He did not learn to speak High Dutch until he went to school. This was looked down on as a 'peasant' language and discouraged, but now with less and less people speaking it they are trying to preserve it, I believe.

My cousin understands it as my Aunt still mostly speaks dialect rather than Dutch, but she does not speak it herself. My Dad and his siblings still mostly converse in dialect when together. My Aunt by marriage (to my Dad's brother) could not understand the dialect which is quite different to Dutch when she met my Uncle and she came from only about 20km (about 12/13miles) away. Some local place names appear in both languages on signs.

I do not speak Dutch myself, but find I can understand a lot more when Dutch is spoken than dialect. My cousin has to keep reminding my Aunt so I can get the gist of what she is saying!

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I know there are whole communities in Texas where the residents speak Czech, and even a few where they speak Swedish.

East, TX, where the tragic fertilizer factory explosion occurred was one the communities that was founded by Czech immigrants.

 

[Dan Allen]

I live in Eastern Oklahoma and am a member of the Cherokee tribe. The Cherokee language is quickly dying. When I was a kid I heard it frequently but now only rarely. You have to go far into the hills to find it in daily use. As the older generation that spoke it in the house passes on the youngsters put less and less importance on it till it's to late, even though the Nation gives classes continually. If you haven't heard it before - it is a beautiful language that deserves to live on.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Not in the US, but my Father grew up in Holland speaking a local dialect (Groniegens) within his family. He did not learn to speak High Dutch until he went to school. This was looked down on as a 'peasant' language and discouraged, but now with less and less people speaking it they are trying to preserve it, I believe.

My cousin understands it as my Aunt still mostly speaks dialect rather than Dutch, but she does not speak it herself. My Dad and his siblings still mostly converse in dialect when together. My Aunt by marriage (to my Dad's brother) could not understand the dialect which is quite different to Dutch when she met my Uncle and she came from only about 20km (about 12/13miles) away. Some local place names appear in both languages on signs.

I do not speak Dutch myself, but find I can understand a lot more when Dutch is spoken than dialect. My cousin has to keep reminding my Aunt so I can get the gist of what she is saying!

THIS is exactly what I was thinking of...20 km apart, speaking essentially different languages. Thanks!

Do you know if that's common all over Europe? I would think it used to be quite common in the US, as so many immigrants settled here in such a very short period of time.

On a side note, a good friend of mine lived in Groningen for a number of years. He married a local girl and brought her back to the US. They've taught their kids different languages by each of them speaking to the kids in different languages...one in English, one in "Dutch". I don't know if the "Dutch" is High Dutch or Gronings, but I'm guessing the former.

 

[HudsonHawk]

East, TX, where the tragic fertilizer factory explosion occurred was one the communities that was founded by Czech immigrants.

One nit..picked: Actually, the town is West, TX (which is more or less in east TX)...but yes, heavily Czech. Many of the locals there still speak the Czech language, not to mention the kolaches at the Czech Stop. Of all the immigrant cultures in Texas, the Czechs seem to have done the most to preserve and celebrate their old-world identity. Of course, the German culture got slammed by two world wars, so it wasn't as celebrated in first half of the 20th Century.

 

[dhermann1]

There are stil a lot of Amish and Mennonite communities that speak their version of German, and speak English fluently, but with an odd Germanish accent.
I find that German heritage in Texas fascinating. It's manifested in names like Tex Ritter, cowboy star, and Robert Strauss, former Democratic party chairman. And you can hear it in the oompah band sound of a lot of Texas country music, and even in some Mexican Mariache music, that oompah waltz beat.
Here in New York there are all sorts of ethnic enclaves where many languages are spoken, but after the first generation the old languages die out quickly. You need to have those isolated enclaves in the interior for language to persist like that.

 

[esteban68]

Over here in the UK regional dialects are slowly being eroded much of it being replaced at least in the young by Americanisations gleaned from worldwide popular culture from the internet, tv, film etc....and such is life as for proper English there probably never was such a thing as the 'English' language as it is a bastardisation of several languages. I believe the current 'proper' English language was 'settled' in the early 1800's when many French affectations where adopted due to the French revolutions. As someone who was born, educated to degree level and has lived all their life in England I find the language extremely interesting and frustrating at times as some words when you write them just Don't look right....my Dutch father in law speaks seven languages says that it is one of the most difficult to learn to it's different origins...however he says he dreams in English not Dutch!

 

[LizzieMaine]

Here in Maine, French is still spoken widely in Lewiston and portions of Augusta -- communities which have had a historically-significant population of Quebecois descent. This is not high school French, it's very much a North American variation, and here it's often overlaid with a thick Maine accent. It's pretty much incomprehensible to anyone who wasn't raised on it, and those who do speak it nowadays are usually middle-aged or older. The kids don't have much use for any language that isn't spoken on TV.

Right near here we had a strong Finnish-language community in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but while there are plenty of local families with Finnish names, the language itself is all but extinct.

Our most notable language here was Penobscot, which is undergoing something of a rebirth on the reservations, and which is still very much a part of our local place names. If you can say "Passagassawaukeag" without stumbling, you're a real Mainer.

 

[esteban68]

I think that's the problem Lizzie....If I look back to when I left school about 30 years ago most people in my county of Derbyshire spoke in dialect especially the old timers, then again we only had 3 tv channels! ....my son who's 27 has no or very little accent/dialect however my 22 year old daughter does....go figure.

 

[HudsonHawk]

There are stil a lot of Amish and Mennonite communities that speak their version of German, and speak English fluently, but with an odd Germanish accent.
I find that German heritage in Texas fascinating. It's manifested in names like Tex Ritter, cowboy star, and Robert Strauss, former Democratic party chairman. And you can hear it in the oompah band sound of a lot of Texas country music, and even in some Mexican Mariache music, that oompah waltz beat.
Here in New York there are all sorts of ethnic enclaves where many languages are spoken, but after the first generation the old languages die out quickly. You need to have those isolated enclaves in the interior for language to persist like that.

I take it from your moniker that you're of German descent? I live in a community called Klein, TX (which is now suburban Houston), which was settled by Germans as well. All of the streets have names like Steubner, Holzwarth and Kuykendahl and the schools names like Wunsche, Middlestadt and Haude. The old-timers around here are quite proud of this.

 

[dhermann1]

My grandfather was born in Germany in 1887, and came here when he was 11. I didn't see much of him during my childhood, but I do remember his totally unsuccessful efforts to teach me Oh Tannanbaum when I was 6. My cousin recently sent me his old German pipe, about 4 feet long. Pretty cool artifact.

 

[3fingers]

The county where my family is from was mostly settled by German immigrants. There is a group in the south end of the county who tended to keep to themselves and even now, when there are not hardly any 1st generation folks left, let alone immigrants, they still have a very German accent, with a fair amount of German words included in their normal speech. It is referred to as south county Dutch. Their high school closed some years ago, and the kids now go to a county wide high school. I have noticed some of them are losing the accent.

 

[Renault]

Speaking the German language was official declared illegal by the texas legislature in 1917. However it never really stopped. Since revoked. I dated a girl from over at La Grange Tx that had to learn English in the first grade. She spoke Czech. She was third gen Texas.

My oldest son married into a Wendish family that still speaks a bit of German. Think they got here in the 1870's.

 

[Guttersnipe]

California has no dialect to loose. its a shame when things get mottled into one common dialect and the regional flare to language is lost. personally i blame MTV.

Sure it did. There was a large community of Yiddish speakers in San Francisco for many years. My family has been in California (S.F., specifically) since the 1870s and we spoke Yiddish in the home until my Dad's generation (he remembers very little; I know practically none).

San Francisco also had a very distinctive regional accent, which has been all but lost since no one is from here anymore . . .

Check out this article about it:
http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/How-to-Talk-Like-a-San-Franciscan-3371767.php

 

[Renault]

Many still use much of the Nahuatl (aztec) language here for much of the floral, faunal and food terms. Especially floral and food. Many of you elsewhere in the states use the food terms and dont even realize it!!!

Most all ranchers and country folk use the floral terms!!! Especially from the middle of the state, south! Especially us old timers

 

[Atticus Finch]

There is a dialect of English that exists in the remote communities of eastern Carteret, Pamlico, Dare and Hyde Counties here in North Carolina. It is locally known as the "Down East" accent. Yes...I know there is a New England "Down East" accent, too, but this one is different. It is peppered with words and idioms that don't exist elsewhere in modern English...and its brogue is so thick that it is almost unintelligible to most outsiders. I have always heard that it is the remnant of the language used by those who settled this area in the late 1600s. Many believe their old way of speaking has been preserved over the centuries by geographical isolation. Indeed, until recently, many of the communities where the dialect exists were accessible only by boat or by very difficult overland travel.

But the Down East accent is slowly disappearing. During the last fifty years roads and bridges have been built to these communities, Down East school districts have been consolidated with communities further west, cable television and telephones have become available to the islanders and tourists have begun to arrive in flocks. Worse yet, many tourists have decided to stay. You can still hear the Down East brogue in remote places like Sea Level, Atlantic and Stacy...but it has become diluted. Except among the very old timers Down East, it is now almost a "twang" as opposed to a dialect.

Here's a small sample of the (perhaps modernized) "Down East" North Carolina dialect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfsxPCqkxog

AF