Wormser

[Purplesage]

I believe this Wormser is also from the 30s! It also has a union label.

 

[Dinerman]

I believe this Wormser is also from the 30s! It also has a union label.

1950s

 

[Purplesage]

Doubt this hat is from the 50s. 40s at the latest.

 

[splintercellsz]

Late 40s-50s.

 

[Dinerman]

Doubt this hat is from the 50s. 40s at the latest.

Your hat is from the 50s. Late 40s at the earliest.

 

[Purplesage]

What makes you think this hat is from the late 40s or even the 50s?


50s Wormser

 

[splintercellsz]

Liner, size tag, hat info tag, sweat style & constructon, dimensions, etc.

 

[Dinerman]

What makes you think this hat is from the late 40s or even the 50s?

The liner style, the sweatband leather color and pattern, the sweatband markings, the style of the tags, the style of the ribbonwork, the dimensions, the blocking. I'd say learly-mid '50s. The stingy you posted is from the early 1960s, which is why the detailing is different.

 

[Purplesage]

oiipo;';k;k

 

[Purplesage]

Ok I'm not disagreeing as far as the general time frame you say the hat was made (late 40s-early 50s). Things you mentioned as determining the age were hat block, stitching, tags and ribbon. In comparing this hat to the 30s Wormser listed in the classified, the measurements are virtually the same 2 1/2" brim, crown of almost 6", and 1 5/8" ribbon. As far as the tags go, the union label, size tag, look identical to those of the 30s model. The price tag is not substantially different in style and at $6.85 the hat isn't that much more expensive then the 30s model. The tag showing the hat style or block number is different. For my own personal knowledge, what specifically about the stitching, block, tags and ribbon would identify this hat as a late 40s - early 50s model? Also on the other thread what specifically establishes the date of 1934 as the earliest date of the Union label and what makes that particular Wormser unique to the 30s rather than the 40s? I have another Wormser that I am pretty sure is older and it also has a union label which I will post shortly.

 

[alanfgag]

http://dlib.nyu.edu/findingaids/html/tamwag/tam_054/index.html

Some things, such as union labels, are well documented by timelines. Others require judgement calls and can only be estimates. There is a large amount of information and collectively developed knowledge archived here - a google search away.

 

[Purplesage]

Thank you Alan.

This is a Wormser that I thought was from the 20s. It has a 2 1/4" raw edge brim, 5 1/2" crown, 1 7/8" grosgrain ribbon, unreeded 2" sweatband. I believe this hat pre-dates the Wormser 7 1/2 in the classifieds that is supposed to be circa 1930s. If the oldest this hat could be is from the 30s based on the union label, there is a significant difference in style and price between the two hats. If this hat is from the 30s, then I would speculate that the other hat was from the 40s. Unfortunately, as careful as I was I ended up popping several stitches trying to check if the hat had a Union label. Would anyone care to comment.

i

 

[bond]

Yes, David , now that looks definitely like an older hat. A Fine example. Curious to know where this one gets dated back to.

 

[Purplesage]

What I find interesting is if the Wormser you have listed in the classifieds is from the 30s and the gray one I posted photos of is from the late 40s or early 50s I would think there would be more of a price difference. Your hat sold for $6.50 and mine sold for $6.85. I personally think your hat looks more like it is from the 40s. It is very similar to mine with the exception that your hat has an unreeded sweatband. They were still using unreeded sweatbands in the 40s and they were also using reeded sweatbands in the 30s. When I was giving the gray a once over last evening I did find a remnant of the plastic liner cover. I wasn't aware it had a liner cover since the remnant was so clear I didn't even notice it. That would support my gray Wormser is probably from the late 40s or early 50s depending on when plastic liner covers were first used. I always thought plastic liner covers were not used until the 50s but were they used in the late 40s as well? I have a Stetson Vogue that I would swear is from the 40s but I'm not sure since it has a plastic liner cover!

I believe the black Wormser would have to go back at least to the 20s if your hat is from the 30s if nothing more based on the $3.45 price tag on the black. I'm sure there are some folks that can weigh in on this one.

 

[alanfgag]

Hats were more expensive in the 1920s than the 1930s. All manufacturers had product lines with a range of prices for different quality levels. With this label, the hat is no earlier than 1934:

"The United Hatters Cap and Millinery Workers International Union (UHCMW) was formed in 1934 by the amalgamation of United Hatters of North America (UHNA) and the Cloth Hat, Cap and Millinery Workers International Union (CHCMW)."

Vinyl plastic crown protectors appear in the 1950s. Other types of protectors (including clear cellophane) were used earlier.

One can certainly guess, but without historical references, they are only guesses. If the purpose is to resell, I don't think there is much price advantage to an earlier guess. Those interested in early hats are a small minority of buyers and they will likely take their clues from the photos over the auction heading.

 

[bond]

Well done Alan , again.

 

[Purplesage]

I've never been on a web site that kicks you off so quickly. By the time you get your thoughts down, you have to log back in. Thank you Alan again. I am not planning to resell but I do like the additional knowledge. The remnant of the liner protector on the gray Wormser appears to be cellophane since it is much thinner than the plastic liner covers of most 50s hats. I wasn't aware of the cellophane but I was aware of oilskin protectors. So I can conclude that my gray Wormser is probably mid to late 40s if that's when cellephane was being used. Since my black Wormser looks like it's from a different era all together I would think that Bond's Wormser would be from the late 30s at the earliest although I think it's from the 40s. It's very similar to my gray Wormser, at least it appears so from the photos and looks more typical of a 40s hat. The price is also close to my gray Wormser. I believe that my black Wormser is a fairly high quality hat based on the felt, liner and sweatband even though it has a $3.50 price tag.

 

[splintercellsz]

$3.50 in the 1920s is a nice chunk-o-change, considering the income was around $1407/year

 

[Purplesage]

Hat must be a 30s hat if if can't be any older than 1934 based on the union tag. Personally I think it looks older.

 

[Nick Charles]

not to butt in but is there a price or auction link?? and is it a 7 1/8 I can't really see the size