Where do you wear morning wear?

[Edward]

Thread title says it all. I love formal daywear. I can't help myself but put together the complete rig. and yet here's the rub: I've nowhere to wear it.... unless I get seriously into heading to Royal Ascot. It's no longer de rigeur at the sort of functions one might have worn it in days gone by. Noone at a wedding bothers now, save perhaps the wedding party - and it would, of course, be entirely bad form to dress to their level if that is not the done thing at a particular wedding. I very much doubt I'll ever get married myself, and at my age the number of weddings I'm likely ever to be so involved in again is headed towards nil.

I do have the full rig for the evening, and I find I quite regularly can create the occasion to wear white tie. Black tie even more so. Daywear..... alas. Once I have a nice stroller, of course, I shall begin to wear it to graduation ceremonies and the like (toned down, no doubt, with a four in hand rather than a cravat tied with a four in hand knot, which would be my preference).

So, gents..... are we forever bereft of opportunities to cut it in morning coat and the works? Am I just going to have to summon up some enthusiasm for the world of Hooray Henrys, gee gees and overpriced champers and strawbugs?

 

[dnjan]

And you actually have it easy. Here on the U.S. west coast it is difficult to find an occaision more formal than black tie. (Unless you have mega-thousands to donate to political or other causes.)
And even the black tie events do not happen very often ...

 

[JimWagner]

I wore morning wear for my mid day wedding.... in 1972.

I haven't even seen anyone wear morning wear since.

 

[John in Covina]

On the East Coast (US) as a child and teen 60's-70's you would see morning wear for (usually Irish) weddings and funerals almost exclusively.

 

[Chasseur]

I'm with you Edward, I love tails and I really love morning dress. Ever since I was a little kid and used to watch old movies I wanted a set of tails. But, they are less commonly seen at wedddings here than in the UK. I wore them for my wedding, but its not common. If we had daytime graduation ceremonies at my University I'd wear morning dress (minus the tails) under my academic robes, but alas we have evening graduations... So like what you said about your white tie rig, I find excuses to wear morning dress here.

This might sound a litttle uncouth to some but unless I am specifically asked by the invitation to wear something else (like a "matching-matching" bad tuxedo set *yucky* , or aloha wear here in Hawaii, etc.) I just wear my morning dress to any daytime wedding I'm invited to. My viewpoint is that people show up essentially wearing "anything" at weddings today, all the weddings I've been to in the past three years have had people wearing everything from tuxs during the day to Hawaiian shirts, shorts and slippers. So if I show up in tails I don't see how thats any ruder than the guy in the slippers and shorts... I've never recieved bad comments on it, people like it and I've had several people say they would think about tails for their wedding etc. I mean anything we can do to stop brides and their mothers from inflicting the horrid "matching set of day time white tuxedos with peach or blue accessories for groom and groomsmen" on more of the population is an unqualified good

 

[cptjeff]

I'm sorry, but that's an ugly and ill fitting white polyester suit with a wing collar shirt and ugly tie and waistcoat. And it's not even a real tie- it seems to be made like an adjustable bowtie. If somebody told me that was a tuxedo in person I would laugh in their face.

The 70's had powder blue tuxedos and ruffled shirts, now it's those abominations. :eusa_doh:

If the groom is wearing that, to hell with the "don't outdress the wedding party" standard. Somebody's gotta have standards.

 

[Geesie]

I'm sorry, but that's an ugly and ill fitting white polyester suit with a wing collar shirt and ugly tie and waistcoat. And it's not even a real tie- it seems to be made like an adjustable bowtie. If somebody told me that was a tuxedo in person I would laugh in their face.

The 70's had powder blue tuxedos and ruffled shirts, now it's those abominations. :eusa_doh:

If the groom is wearing that, to hell with the "don't outdress the wedding part" standard. Somebody's gotta have standards.

I would find it impossible to outdress the wedding party if they were so attired. I don't own clothing that is a) worse and b) I'd wear outside lawn maintenance

 

[Edward]

lol

The last wedding I was at was relatively informal in terms of the men's dress for the wedding party; the boys were wearing (actually really nicely cut, lovely cloth) contemporary lounge suits from Brooks Brothers. Plenty of guests there in full Highland regalia (wedding was in Edinburgh), but to have gone in tails would, I think, have been pushing it. To most people it is simply a 'wedding costume'... Shame, but there we are. I'd quite like one day to go to a wedding where those guests who wanted to take up the option were encouraged to go formal.... I think that would be fun.

I absolutely agree with the comments on the overly-matched nature of so much modern wedding attire.... I suppose this is a by-product of the fact that formal daywear has come to be viewed as costume, and is therefore treated as such when outfits are being put together. Were it my choice, I'd be looking to put together a set of complimentary outfits that, while most likely hired in the main, had the appearance of being all the men wearing something that they happened to have in their wardrobe. Similar to sending a few guys out to put together a proper black tie outfit, then assembling them fully dressed.

I must pick myself up a decent stroller, then I would at least have that option, hich is something I'd be happier to wear to more events that I do get to.

 

[avedwards]

I must pick myself up a decent stroller, then I would at least have that option, hich is something I'd be happier to wear to more events that I do get to.

A stroller should be fairly easy to assemble if one has morning dress. The same trousers and waistcoat are worn, so all that's needed is a black suit coat (with peaked lapels rather than notched if you want to be pedantic).

I wish morning dress were worn more often too. I've spotted a vintage tailcoat in a shop near me which fits, but I can't justify paying £55 for something I'd never wear. I'd like to assemble a stroller too, since the most formal daywear I have is a lounge suit so a stroller would give me the option of being more formal.

 

[Chasseur]

Edward,

Your comments on wearing tails pushing it at a wedding where many people are wearing full highland regalia are interesting. I know you said the wedding was in Scotland so that has a major effect on the pressence of tartanry. For the US, my viewpoint is that if you've got people in kilts, Prince Charlie Jackets and lace jabots then I can wear morning dress, it would stand out less here than the highland attire unless you are at a Robbie Burns party. Perhaps because we stopped having the morning dress tradition here about 20-30 years ago it has less a social stigma since its not really viewed as "wedding costume." Those white suit/tux things are now seen as wedding costume, at least in Hawaii (and some weddings I went to in California).

Interesting point actually. Thanks for a great thread Edward!

 

[Lokar]

I think the thing is, the UK has stuck with morning dress as morning wear (and as most daytimes are weddings...)

In the states, you appear to just use black tie for everything formal, regardless of what time or the formality. As it's still used in the UK, but purely for Royal Ascot and weddings, and most people don't go to Royal Ascot, it has become, in the eyes of the public, wedding attire.

 

[Chasseur]

Lokar,

You hit the nail on the head I think.

 

[Lokar]

I find it easier to wear a frock coat than morning dress, as people just think a frock coat is an overcoat..

I wish I had a suggestion of where to wear it Edward. Were it not for my accepting friends, I'd find it hard enough to wear suits here..

 

[Edward]

Edward,

Your comments on wearing tails pushing it at a wedding where many people are wearing full highland regalia are interesting. I know you said the wedding was in Scotland so that has a major effect on the pressence of tartanry. For the US, my viewpoint is that if you've got people in kilts, Prince Charlie Jackets and lace jabots then I can wear morning dress, it would stand out less here than the highland attire unless you are at a Robbie Burns party.

True; and again, we're back to the context.

Perhaps because we stopped having the morning dress tradition here about 20-30 years ago it has less a social stigma since its not really viewed as "wedding costume." Those white suit/tux things are now seen as wedding costume, at least in Hawaii (and some weddings I went to in California).

It does intrigue me that - so far as I gather at this distance, at least - in the US, the stroller is still around, as opposed to the morning coat.... To me, that seems a more logical evolution. Here in the UK, the stroller is virtually unheard of: where formal daywear survives, it is full formal daywear: the opposite from what has happened to eveningwear, where semi-formal has become the norm. Another impression I have of the US is that more recently black tie is starting to emerge as an all-purpose formal wear, day or evening. Is that the case? Again, it seems a likely scenario in this day and age, if regrettable.

As it's still used in the UK, but purely for Royal Ascot and weddings, and most people don't go to Royal Ascot, it has become, in the eyes of the public, wedding attire.

That, alas, seems to be the case.

 

[Lokar]

Shockingly, last year when I was walking through Lund (the nearby city, with one of the oldest universities in Sweden with lots of pomp at graduation time) at graduation time, I saw perhaps 20 people in black tie, 40 in white tie, and 1 person in a morning coat.

This was at about 11 AM. I sighed.

 

[Chasseur]

The wedding outfits I've seen in the past few years seem to all variations of day-time tuxedos. For warm climates and summer weddings its the white monstrosity:

and for winter weddings and cooler climes its some sort of tuxedo/suit hybrid a lot like the "creative black tie" of the Oscars but during the day: probably notch lapels, maybe a bow tie, maybe a four in hand, or maybe a wing collar with a four in hand for a pseudo Edwardian look, or a notched lapel suit (no satin lapels) with a bow tie and wing collar, etc. All with some blue or peach color for tie and waistcoat [huh]

I've not seen any strolers in US weddings, but I have seen them advertised in catalogues/websites. I've actually seen a few morning dress being worn for weddings in the US, but not strolers. Most of the morning dress I've seen were Japanese weddings done here in Hawaii for a wedding vacation, but in large part even the Japanese tourists have adopted the "John Travolta" wedding special for their Hawaii weddings.

In theory I suppose some US wedding planners could come up with a 'day time outfit' and actually have it close to a stoler: peak lapeled black jacket and striped trousers, but I would imagine it would be by accident rather than design.

Again, thanks for a good thread!

 

[cptjeff]

Another impression I have of the US is that more recently black tie is starting to emerge as an all-purpose formal wear, day or evening. Is that the case? Again, it seems a likely scenario in this day and age, if regrettable.

That's exactly what is happening. A tuxedo is the only formalwear most Americans know the existence of, there is no sense of variations within formal anymore, other then various things that purport to be tuxedos.

 

[John in Covina]

Most American men go to the tux shop once or twice in their life.
Once for their Senior Prom, the high school senior year formal dance
and the possible second visit is when they get married for the first time.

A third can be if called to be part of anothers wedding party.

Out this way the tux shop, especially if located in a shopping mall, is a place of hideous suits, zoot suit stylings, pimp daddy suitery all touted as formal wear for the great unwashed. Often they don't have anything that might pass as a traditional tuxedo at all, it doesn't fit the local's WWF/MTV/BET awards concepts of tuxedo.

 

[Smithy]

I think the thing is, the UK has stuck with morning dress as morning wear (and as most daytimes are weddings...)

This is true of the Commonwealth as well - well at least NZ and Australia. Morning dress is still popular as wedding attire and I'd go so far as to say it's more popular in NZ than Oz, possibly due to the cooler climate. For that reason, as Edward does in the UK, there is no way one would wear morning dress to a wedding unless it was specified on the invitation. You'd be seen as trying to outdo the wedding party and it would be considered highly rude.

There are a lot of race meetings here in Melbourne which tend to be formal in dress (if not in behaviour in the public areas) and you see the odd few blokes in morning suit at these. Also some of the special functions at gentlemen's clubs here require the wearing of morning suit if in the daytime,

But the most you will see it down this way is as wedding dress for the groom and best men.

 

[AntonAAK]

lol

I must pick myself up a decent stroller, then I would at least have that option, hich is something I'd be happier to wear to more events that I do get to.

I'd be interested to know under what circumstances you would wear the stroller. I (perhaps erroneously) tend to think of the stroller as formal business wear and associate it with Captain Mainwaring at his bank or diplomats and politicians.

Would you wear it outside of a business environment?

A