What's your definition of a "vintage" leather jacket?

[Logician]

At what point can a leather jacket be considered vintage? What are the criteria? Is vintage just a fad? Does vintage reflect a certain nostalgy of the past? What does it say about our time? I refer here particularly, but not exclusively, to military, motorcycle and work leather jackets.

 

[CBI]

for me "vintage" means old, 30 or more years old. if its a "new" jacket like an Eastman or Aero then its a "vintage style" jacket

 

[Monitor]

For me personally, 40's, 50's, maybe 60's. I don't like to call 70's onward stuff vintage, though it's definitely been a long time since but what I'd define as a true vintage motorcycle jacket, for example, would have to be something from the 50's. Dunno, that's how I see it.

 

[Will Zach]

Up to the 60s for me.

 

[JMax]

I think 30s-60s when I hear vintage. After that, in my mind, it just goes by decade, 70’s, 80’s, etc.

 

[navetsea]

To me it means fine surviving example of its time, something that was designed good to begin with and has collected good characters from time and wear.

Otherwise it is just old deadstock or wornout old

 

[handymike]

Anything before the 90s for me.

 

[Seb Lucas]

At what point can a leather jacket be considered vintage? What are the criteria? Is vintage just a fad? Does vintage reflect a certain nostalgy of the past? What does it say about our time? I refer here particularly, but not exclusively, to military, motorcycle and work leather jackets.

Interesting. Not sure what you are getting at in some of these questions. Is vintage just a fad? Vintage jackets have been prized for decades - I was buying and selling them in the 1980's, so I don't think fad covers it. It might be a fad in certain superficial fashion subcultures but who cares about them? Nostalgia is a factor for some people, however it is pretty hard to be nostalgic for a time you didn't live through. I've had a lot of clothes that were made before I was born.

Vintage is partially subjective, but generally vintage clothes are anything that is 25 years plus. For me that seems as close as last year, so I consider proper vintage to be early to mid 20th century. I have a 23 year-old who thinks vintage is a jacket I bought new in 1990. Why not, if you are 23?

I don't think an interest in old shit says anything profound about our own time. My dad had a thing for clothing from before 1900 in the late 1930's People of all generations have looked backwards for inspiration because many of us find historic items compelling. Being bored by the aesthetics of your own time is a cliche and you can find this being expressed throughout history.

 

[AeroFan_07]

^^ That is a good write up of this rather difficult question.

For me the "vintage" thing starts also around the early 1970's and backward from there. Guess that could be partially as I was born in that time as well. Plus, at least in my humble opinon, the general styles, and quality of clothing and dress through most of the '70's left a lot to be desired. It was that way for me too with automobilies, which is it's own topic.

For me personally, the vintage vibe stops around the early 1940's, WWII era. Older than that is simply antique to me. That said, a lot of good inspiration in design, durability, and utility from those much older styles.

 

[Guppy]

At what point can a leather jacket be considered vintage? What are the criteria? Is vintage just a fad? Does vintage reflect a certain nostalgy of the past? What does it say about our time? I refer here particularly, but not exclusively, to military, motorcycle and work leather jackets.

I can honestly say that I do not worry about this even a little bit. I think about how I can tell whether a jacket is well made, how to take care of it to keep it in good condition, how I can tell whether it fits well, and does it look cool on me.

 

[Guppy]

As far as a definition of "vintage" goes, doesn't the term come from wine? Literally the age of the vine? Which is to say that in wine, everything has a vintage. Vintage 2018 is a wine pressed in 2018. Older wines are prized for how well they aged. So the term got associated with finely aged wine of a particiular vintage, from many years ago.

So for applying the term to anything else, it should just mean a thing that has aged well. Partly, that means that it was well cared for, stored properly, not abused, in good condition. Partly that means that it was well made to begin with, to be able to hold up for those years. Partly that means that it has an appeal that is timeless, such that it is still appealing now. Or perhaps its appeal derives from the fact that it is emblematic of its time.

 

[Seb Lucas]

As far as a definition of "vintage" goes, doesn't the term come from wine? Literally the age of the vine? Which is to say that in wine, everything has a vintage. Vintage 2018 is a wine pressed in 2018.

My memory of the word 'vintage' is that is was applied to clothing at some point to vastly improve on the term 'used' clothing. A la vintage cars. Interviews with celebrities, back when magazines were a thing, used to have them say stuff like, 'I've very much into vintage clothing.' Sounds better than I'm into used clothing. Pre-loved was the other, slightly more mawkish term for used clothing. As some point thrift shop finds were given an allure by calling them vintage or recycled. I know some people who call old clobber 'classic clothing', borrowing the term from 'classic cars.' The term hasn't always denoted a time period just the fact that you got this jacket from a dead person... or someone now elderly...

 

[Logician]

Interesting. Not sure what you are getting at in some of these questions. Is vintage just a fad? Vintage jackets have been prized for decades - I was buying and selling them in the 1980's, so I don't think fad covers it. It might be a fad in certain superficial fashion subcultures but who cares about them? Nostalgia is a factor for some people, however it is pretty hard to be nostalgic for a time you didn't live through. I've had a lot of clothes that were made before I was born.

Vintage is partially subjective, but generally vintage clothes are anything that is 25 years plus. For me that seems as close as last year, so I consider proper vintage to be early to mid 20th century. I have a 23 year-old who thinks vintage is a jacket I bought new in 1990. Why not, if you are 23?

I don't think an interest in old shit says anything profound about our own time. My dad had a thing for clothing from before 1900 in the late 1930's People of all generations have looked backwards for inspiration because many of us find historic items compelling. Being bored by the aesthetics of your own time is a cliche and you can find this being expressed throughout history.

Let me briefly put things into context.
I recently visited a store in Montreal that sells exclusively vintage clothing. There was a cross-zip Schott leather jacket from the late 80's that caught my attention. It was retailing for well over $1000.
Are you sure it's a vintage jacket, I asked? Isn't it more of a vintage style jacket?
No, the saleswoman answered in a confident tone, it's pure vintage. Vintage is a big seller these days, she added. No doubt you don't know what real vintage is, she concluded by looking at me condescendingly.
I came out of the store a little stunned by what had just happened, and asking myself what is vintage after all and why was it so fashionable and a good seller, for lack of better words. It reminded me of a story, I believe it is by Steinbeck, although I'm not sure, where some characters artificially aged furniture to make them look antique in order to sell them at a higher price.
Anyway, if the end of the 80's qualifies as vintage then I must be older than I thought!

 

[AeroFan_07]

^^

You could have really stunned her by wearing one of Terry's jackets in there, and when she condescendingly said that to you, pull it off and ask her to date it...

That's what I like in here - we're all here to help each other out. There may be an occassional disagreement, but no looking down on each other for the many questions we all have! Too bad the shop keeper had such an attitude - and such a rather "gouged" price...

I also "bumped" into this kind of condescending shop keeper in a vintage men's store in Minneaoplis. Truth be told, they had, and probably still have, a wall of very nice, true Vintage leathers. However thier prices were firm. They were high, you had to ask to try the jackets on (which I can see) and no offers would be considered. It was pay the full price or scram. They also had quite a selection of (more just used) men's shirts & denim. But I was rather put-off by the attitude of the shop keeper so I left empty-handed, not to return.

 

[tmitchell59]

Are you sure it's a vintage jacket, I asked? Isn't it more of a vintage style jacket?
No, the saleswoman answered in a confident tone, it's pure vintage. Vintage is a big seller these days, she added. No doubt you don't know what real vintage is, she concluded by looking at me condescendingly.

There is your answer, it means what it means to the person using the word. Here Vintage is used as the Ol' Economic ploy; Vintage=Valuable=Expensive. Often spoken by people with no knowledge of the subject. We've all played this word game such that Vintage becomes suspect. Or add "True" Vintage to make it really OLd old=Desirable=valuable. The same yarn.

Really, who is fooled by these words when the fact is different? You knew the truth, but kept to yourself. You should have schooled them. Vintage is not a magic word. People don't part with their money on just magic words.

I know what a Vintage leather jacket is because I define it. Other people do the same. We may agree or we may disagree, it should matter little to either.

I go back to around 1932 with the advent and popular use of the Talon Zipper.

then ends around 1960, with notable exceptions.

Obviously a lot happened in between,

 

[Arnold]

My definition of the term "vintage" is: "stay away from this ad or auction, because for a long time now 'vintage' has been a euphemism for 'needs a lot of work' - at best".

Of course I went against my rule many times, otherwise I wouldnt know. But it gets confirmed every time. With jackets, it usually means flaws like smells or smeary copper rot which weren't in the description and of course the seller never noticed them. Of course not.

Hell, the biggest classifieds website in my country even proffers this blithe piece of advice to their sellers: "Don't call it 'used' if it's vintage!" - I can actually hear the coins ringing in the slightly cavernous heads of the marketing guys who came up with this.

AFAIK, the use of the term outside of fields where it makes sense because it's used with a time designation meaningful to its quality (like wine) started once there were online platforms for dealing with second hand items. And like all trends that originate from online interactivity, it got out of hand quickly.

Whether it's vinyl records or leather jackets, sunglasses or magazines - call it second hand, describe its condition and name the year or decade of manufacture. That'll do. Everything else is pretentious or, if not intended so, complicit.

Don't call it vintage if it's just used.


(Do people sell opened, already-drank-from bottles of wine as "vintage"?)

 

[tmitchell59]

I just bought this Old jacket. Maybe we need a new word,

How about Cold? Cool+old or Cooled-this one has both plus it needs a few stitches! Was a lot less than 1K and much cooler than an 80s Schott.

 

[Guppy]

My memory of the word 'vintage' is that is was applied to clothing at some point to vastly improve on the term 'used' clothing. A la vintage cars. Interviews with celebrities, back when magazines were a thing, used to have them say stuff like, 'I've very much into vintage clothing.' Sounds better than I'm into used clothing. Pre-loved was the other, slightly more mawkish term for used clothing. As some point thrift shop finds were given an allure by calling them vintage or recycled. I know some people who call old clobber 'classic clothing', borrowing the term from 'classic cars.' The term hasn't always denoted a time period just the fact that you got this jacket from a dead person... or someone now elderly...

The term "used wine" just makes me think of urine, lol, not appealing at all.

Vintage clothing need not be used, or pre-owned, though it often is. These words have nuanced differences: pre-owned clothing could be taken to mean something that was purchased but never worn. Used means, well, used, so definitely has been worn, although that could mean anything from "worn once, like new condition" to "worn out and thrashed."

 

[Guppy]

I recently visited a store in Montreal that sells exclusively vintage clothing. There was a cross-zip Schott leather jacket from the late 80's that caught my attention. It was retailing for well over $1000.
Are you sure it's a vintage jacket, I asked? Isn't it more of a vintage style jacket?
No, the saleswoman answered in a confident tone, it's pure vintage. Vintage is a big seller these days, she added. No doubt you don't know what real vintage is, she concluded by looking at me condescendingly.

Merchants are not to be trusted, as a general rule. Many will say anything to justify a price or to get a sale. The "rude" approach works to make someone feel insecure, and want to justify that they are worthy of the item by spending a lot of money to "prove" that they can afford it. It's silliness, of course, but it works on some people. You knew what you were looking at, what it was worth, and were not fooled.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Let me briefly put things into context.
I recently visited a store in Montreal that sells exclusively vintage clothing. There was a cross-zip Schott leather jacket from the late 80's that caught my attention. It was retailing for well over $1000.
Are you sure it's a vintage jacket, I asked? Isn't it more of a vintage style jacket?
No, the saleswoman answered in a confident tone, it's pure vintage. Vintage is a big seller these days, she added. No doubt you don't know what real vintage is, she concluded by looking at me condescendingly.
I came out of the store a little stunned by what had just happened, and asking myself what is vintage after all and why was it so fashionable and a good seller, for lack of better words. It reminded me of a story, I believe it is by Steinbeck, although I'm not sure, where some characters artificially aged furniture to make them look antique in order to sell them at a higher price.
Anyway, if the end of the 80's qualifies as vintage then I must be older than I thought!

As covered before, 'vintage' is employed to describe old or used or preloved or older style. Words don't really have meanings they have usage and 'vintage' is one of those words you can adapt for a range of uses. Like 'retro'. I think the woman is perfectly entitled to call a 1980's jacket vintage. There are better uses of the word, but it is within the range of normal.

Artificially aging furniture to look older has a long tradition. Especially if the furniture is of an antique design but made recently as so many ugly Victorian repops are. Chairs, for instance, are beaten (somewhat carefully) with chains and aged with shoe polish to look a 150 years old.

You know you are getting old when someone tells you you have great vintage items in your home and they are all things you bough new not that long ago, it seems....