Was Roughwear The Original Manufacturer Of The Iconic Hercules Jacket?

[tmitchell59]

In this thread we will investigate the origins of the Hercules jacket to see if we can determine who originally manufactured this jacket.

A slide show of a few vintage Hercules

 

[RiteStuffBryan]

Thanks for that incredible slideshow Terry; the clearer shots of the patent tags in better condition also helped me find those patents by Rough Wear:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US1993705A/en?oq=1,993,705

The second seems to only be tangentially related to the Hercules design; overly cautious maybe? It looks like the cutaway back facing to the main zip but on the real models it’s not a built-in muffler like in the patent:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2056788A/en?oq=US2056788

 

[tmitchell59]

The first pictured is Roughwear that is the patent reference. 1934 was the year before the Hercules appeared in the catalog.

https://blog.eastmanleather.com/view-post/the-rough-wear-clothing-company

This jacket is otherwise unlabeled. Made to the same quality as Monarch but not made by them, made by the holder of the patent, Roughwear Clothing.

This jacket has all the labels, I can't find it so can't recall the wording on the ribbon label. I will look tomorrow.

Do not know the age of this jacket, the zipper has been changed.

The patent for the collar is Roughwear Clothing. Perhaps this is the earliest edition with that ribbon. 1935 or so. This one could certainly pass for a jacket from 1935. The half-belt above is late 40s.

The jackets also demonstrate RW was capable of high quality civilian wear, just as Monarch. There is a missing jacket that cements this point and I don't own it. It will appear.

The Question is:

Who made the Iconic Hercules, it is associated with Monarch not Roughwear.

That is what my investigation is about.

What do you think?

 

[RiteStuffBryan]

Based on the patent being held by Rough Wear, and those jackets with similar adjustable collars and patent garment tags, it seems to point to Rough Wear.

The second jacket is interesting; it has similar two-way pockets and the same side adjusters as my Admiral Byrd wool half belt that I figured was ‘40s despite the patent date:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2042282A/en?oq=US2042282

 

[tmitchell59]

I'm floored!!! Missed that Wool, incredible!!! That jacket has a grommet zipper? Yes, that jacket dates to c.1935. Roughwear made the Admiral Byrd labeled jackets, that are seen with both labels, as below.

I have long held my admiration for this pocket design, no idea it was patented. There is a reference to the "two way" pockets in a c.1948 Sears catalog.

The brown Windward below has always been a favorite, I know now it was made by Roughwear, in the early 1940s.

1941 Wards catalog. Note the description in top right jackets, the same as I pictured.

The jacket bottom right is a California Sportswear model. The jackets lower left I believe are H and L Block from California. I have a couple very similar.

 

[tmitchell59]

Your wool jacket has the sewn half-belt with adjustment at the lower position, like the Iconic Hercules we are investigating. Also the same time frame.

Question: Why did they not use the patented pocket design?

Question: Would Roughwear make jackets for both Sears and Wards at the same time, conflict?

 

[tmitchell59]

Based on the patent being held by Rough Wear, and those jackets with similar adjustable collars and patent garment tags, it seems to point to Rough Wear.

The second jacket is interesting; it has similar two-way pockets and the same side adjusters as my Admiral Byrd wool half belt that I figured was ‘40s despite the patent date:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2042282A/en?oq=US2042282

View attachment 494801
View attachment 494804
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View attachment 494803

Here us your jacket 1941 Wards catalog

 

[JMax]

Here us your jacket 1941 Wards catalog

View attachment 494962

I would do bad things to good people for that Windward Aviator.

 

[RiteStuffBryan]

Here us your jacket 1941 Wards catalog

View attachment 494962

Bingo, there it is! Thanks for that Terry, the only MW catalog I have is the 1935 one.

Your wool jacket has the sewn half-belt with adjustment at the lower position, like the Iconic Hercules we are investigating. Also the same time frame.

Question: Why did they not use the patented pocket design?

Question: Would Roughwear make jackets for both Sears and Wards at the same time, conflict?

If Rough Wear is like the sewing factories I work with, they basically make clothing for any brand that can pay and isn’t too much of a pain in the neck, so they could have conceivably made jackets for Sears, MW and even other mail-order companies.

As for Sears not using the two-way pocket that’s an interesting question , maybe the designer(s) head there didn’t like it or they wanted to differentiate themselves from Wards.

 

[tmitchell59]

Bingo, there it is! Thanks for that Terry, the only MW catalog I have is the 1935 one.

If Rough Wear is like the sewing factories I work with, they basically make clothing for any brand that can pay and isn’t too much of a pain in the neck, so they could have conceivably made jackets for Sears, MW and even other mail-order companies.

As for Sears not using the two-way pocket that’s an interesting question , maybe the designer(s) head there didn’t like it or they wanted to differentiate themselves from Wards.

I have only the 1941 catalog pages, I don't recall who found them. I don't have any other Wards catalog pages that I can recall. I do have most of the Sears pages. I would be interested in seeing the 1935 Wards images.

Yes, I even noted the three different companies I could see on the one Ward page; California Sportswear, Roughwear, HL Block. Now I can begin to recognize RW jackets in the Sears catalog, or with a JC Penney label. Perhaps RW had an agreement to only sell through Wards, they did include two labels on some of these jackets.

Yes, perhaps the wanted a unique jacket (which they did achieve) by not using the RW pocket but the RW collar.

Would RW have licensed the use of the patent? Would that be indicated on the item?

I have thought of this angle; Monarch is the maker of the Iconic Hercules, as has been generally believed, and RW licensed them to use their patent?

I understand I am mostly alone in this quest, but the questions and responses do help.

 

[Claybertrand]

I don't know how I missed these few threads on this jacket type. I had previously discussed the mystery/history of the iconic Original Hercules jacket with @tmitchell59. I had tracked down that patent for the adjustable collar and there are strong indications from this patent that RoughWear made the jacket. It is possible they licensed the patent to the collar to others which would certainly muddy the waters further on who made these jackets. I think its more likely that RoughWear made the jackets for several companies than that they licensed their patent. I just don't think that patented collar was all that valuable as an advancement in jacket making.

Here are the photos of my version of this jacket for the thread. It is unlabeled as to any maker. It does have the label with the patent. It does NOT have the chin strap that is present on all the other Original Hercules jackets I have seen.

 

[tmitchell59]

I've been waiting for you. You came in to close the case! This is RW's generic version of the Iconic Hercules which they produced not Monarch.

Your evidence should rest the case.


This is my unlabeled RW from a bit latter in the 40s. Probably a size 48 and extremely heavy.

 

[handymike]

The Navy Blue Melton lining was in the 1936-1938 models. 1935, 1939, 1940, and the more expensive ones in '41 had the 18oz wool & silk grey tweed lining. In 1941 & 42 the lining switched to cotton fleece, probably at the start of WWII. If Roughwear made the blue ones, maybe Monarch made the "fancy" plaid ones. Seems the contract bounced around a bit.

 

[Claybertrand]

I've been waiting for you. You came in to close the case! This is RW's generic version of the Iconic Hercules which they produced not Monarch.

Your evidence should rest the case.


This is my unlabeled RW from a bit latter in the 40s. Probably a size 48 and extremely heavy.

View attachment 495167 View attachment 495168 View attachment 495169 View attachment 495170 View attachment 495171

I don't know how I missed being tagged on these discussions!! I had thought I brought my jacket up in its own thread but then realized I sloppily blabbed about it in Finds and Deals!!! It should be represented in these threads that are on point so it can help with the research!!

I think its still down to either RoughWear MADE these jackets, OR they licensed use of their patents to others who made the jackets. To reiterate, I lean toward the former. My reasoning is really just my gut feeling based on the totality of the facts we have. We know that the practice of makers making jackets for multiple different retail outlets was fairly prevalent. We don't see a prevalence of the RoughWear patented adjustable collar at all much less its presence in a myriad of different vintage jackets. This can likely be logically attributed to those cloth collars just not lasting as long as the leather jackets themselves. However, another reason for the relative scarcity of these collars would be simply that the patent was not licensed to anyone and was held and used exclusively by RoughWear.

If the patented collar was not licensed to others, then the strong indication is that indeed RoughWear made the jackets.

I don't know that we can ever get more definitive than this which is admittedly--not 100% definitive.

 

[tmitchell59]

This is the first edition with this zipper and the older Giant Hercules label. These jackets have a separate horsehide label. Plain lining like mine.

This is a later edition with the Horse head label, but also the fancy lining and patent tag.

 

[handymike]

The wool flip up patented collar appears in the 1938 model. Which states “New all wool plaid body lining, not a plain blue…A warm all wool Patented neckband inside collar.” Before that it was corduroy facing in the collar….
@tmitchell59 the top one you posted is an oddball…the grommet zipper looks to be 1935 but that had a silk grey tweed lining. The wool inner collar doesn’t match up with with the year- it would’ve been corduroy.

 

[Claybertrand]

This is the first edition with this zipper and the older Giant Hercules label. These jackets have a separate horsehide label. Plain lining like mine.

View attachment 495186

This is a later edition with the Horse head label, but also the fancy lining and patent tag.

View attachment 495187 View attachment 495188

That first pic has the zipper that would have the Grommets reinforcing the base and male side.

 

[Claybertrand]

The wool flip up patented collar appears in the 1938 model. Which states “New all wool plaid body lining, not a plain blue…A warm all wool Patented neckband inside collar.” Before that it was corduroy facing in the collar….
@tmitchell59 the top one you posted is a 1941 or 42 with both wool inside collar and beige fleece lining.

This is the inside of mine........ just to add to the confusion........ It has the tag for the adjustable collar but no collar and it has the corduroy facing on the inner collar and also on the backside of the collar

 

[handymike]

Ok, so the corduroy adjustable collars are earlier than 1938. Wool inner collars ‘38- onwards. @Claybertrand yours is a 1936 or ‘37.

 

[tmitchell59]

This is the earliest edition of the jacket. This style of pull

This is the inside of mine........ just to add to the confusion........ It has the tag for the adjustable collar but no collar and it has the corduroy facing on the inner collar and also on the backside of the collar

What type of zipper? mine above has the inner collar removed. My Vintage Hercules has the corduroy on the outside too.