USAF N-3B parkas - Let's talk about them!!

[Fifty150]

I have 2 of these in storage. I really don't wear them day to day, as they were issued as uniform and I am no longer assigned to those specific details. I don't remember feeling cold. But that was a long time ago, and I was also wearing many layers of clothing.

For my assignments, civilian, not military, it was okay. Very good that it protected from the elements. Not so good because it wasn't waterproof breathable, just water resistant.

I was not in Alaska, or Antarctica, or Siberia....... NYC, Sierra Nevada Mountains, and assignments in the deserts of the Southwest...... Yes, the desert got cold at night. There was wind, temperatures dropped, flash floods do happen, and lightning storms. Although the only time I was ever in a desert flash flood, I was out drinking in Las Vegas Chinatown.

wear an MA-1 jacket underneath without problems

it was the best they had at the time. These days it's obsolete.

Since we are suppose to shelter in place, I have time. Local temperature is 50°F, and windy. Not really fair, so I only wore jogging pants and a t-shirt. I step out, and yes, I felt the cold. That's my baseline. Now I can go for walks around the block to see how the jackets worked.

1st, I went out with an MA-1. It did the job. My torso was warm. Head and legs were cold. I should have worn a hat.

Then I went out with the N-3B. Just as warm. Top of my legs were warm until the wind blew up the hemline and through the front opening. Open the zipper, stick my hand inside, and I could feel the heat inside the coat. The hood worked well. My head was warm.

Now I wear the MA-1, with the N-3B over it. As Doctor Damage described. Raised my arms and swung them around. No restriction. Good range of motion. I wasn't just warm. I got hot. It felt like I was inside a room with the heater turned on.

My personal observation is that I can wear, and have worn,an N-3B, and be comfortable. I also agree with Dr. Damage that modern uniform has more size range options, is better fitting, and the technology just doesn't compare. Even Alpha offers a slim fit, and other insulation options in the civilian market.

Great that people still enjoy the way that they look. And for what it is, I think that it works, in the sense that I am warm wearing it. Although I wouldn't want anyone to think it's a great coat; because people on an online forum like them, or a Japanese ad makes it look great. It's still obsolete.

 

[Doctor Damage]

 

[Cornelius]

^ Nice! I read that profile of Linda Zall the other day & had noticed the parka shot as well.

 

[Fifty150]

Since March, I have worn the N3-B coats several times. In my climate, 50 degrees Fahrenheit, it's more than I need. Within a few hours drive of home, temperatures drop to freezing and below freezing in the winter. There is snow in the mountains. As I recall that the coats were issued for assignments in an open top Jeep, helicopter flights, and on the deck of patrol boats; I will affirm that it's a good top coat. A coat you wear on top of other layers. A coat which is sized to fit over many bulky layers, and a jacket. I was never cold when actually wearing the N-3B.

 

[Kestrel452]

Howdy y'all. I was reading somewhere that the N3B is (or at least at one point) was typically paired with what's known as the "F1B trousers". Is that still the case or what matching sage green pants are worn now with it?

 

[Doctor Damage]

Howdy y'all. I was reading somewhere that the N3B is (or at least at one point) was typically paired with what's known as the "F1B trousers". Is that still the case or what matching sage green pants are worn now with it?

I haven't seen anything specific, and haven't tried to research it, but I'm 99% sure the N3B parkas are no longer used by the military, except perhaps as "shared" coats borrowed for short times by visitors or VIPs visiting bases or getting USAF rides in cold conditions. Same for the F1B pants.

 

[Fifty150]

Pretty sure that by now, active duty is using ECWCS.

 

[jpk_NJ]

I kind of went on a military kick lately acquiring three N series jackets and two field jackets. Hoping the lounge can help identify my two unknown soldier N3B s that are tagless. Both are coyote fur rufs so these are within the same decade.
First one - Scovill zips, matte satin shell, olive color, larger buttons, horizontal lines on hood stitching

 

[jpk_NJ]

Second jacket

Connar zips, shiny satin shell, smaller buttons, diagonal stitch on collar, dark sage color

 

[ECWCS]

Differences between manufacturers in the 1950s and 1960s are not going to be significant. The fanatics will disagree, but they won't be able to prove their position. My suggestion with the vintage ones is to ignore the manufacturer and get the best condition you can afford. The original military parkas shells were nylon, the liners nylon, with wool/cotton pile insulation and real fur ruff. Today, the military parkas have a cotton blend shell, cotton liner, and synthetic insulation with synthetic fur ruff. See also below.

The modern day military parkas use different materials and detailing than the vintage ones as I noted above, but they're every bit as hard-core when it comes to keeping you warm. The civilian Alpha parkas are much inferior and are suitable only for regular use by regular folks going about their daily lives. The modern day military parkas are arguably too heavy for daily use unless you spend a lot of time outside in winter in Alaska or Minnesota or Canada.

I only made the comment about the nylon since it's an article of faith that vintage USAF nylon is some sort of miraculous material not seen today, but in reality Alpha's early civilian nylon from the 1980s and 1990s wasn't significantly inferior. Inside baseball.

Seeing as everyone loves the N-3B here's a few bits of history and facts,

I have been wearing Alpha N-3B's since 1974 and have always owned them, Back in 1998 I phoned Alpha HQ to discuss the history of their N-3B's and the original wool blended N-3B's were rated to -14*f/-25.5*c the Nylon versions were always rated to -20*f/-28.88*c and when worn with the rest of the military kit the Military rated them down to -60*f/-51*c,

I asked their Tech Dept what are the Civillian versions rated at and they told me -20*f/-28.88*c, Bringing things forward to their currant N-3B's they are still the same spec as the last versions issued to the Military, I also took I Micrometer and measured the Shell thickness and it is exactly the same as the vintage versions everyone is talking about, I also checked the thickness of 2 pairs of Vintage N-4B Flyers Mitts and they measured exactly the same as well right down to 0.000mm, And the Only differance is the Ruff is now removable,

Also people have compared the N-3B's to the Canada Goose Parka's, Canada Goose Parka's all have a TEI rating with their TEI 4 are rated to -15*c to -25*c and Only their parka's rated with the TEI of 5 is rated from -30*c and below and only 2 of their Parka's have the same Snorkel Hood copied from the N-3B. As pointed out earlier when worn with the rest of the kit the N-3B will keep you warm down to -51*c/-60*f and below According to the US Military,

I own the Alpha Alaska Version "Civilian" Version of a variant of the N-3B and it is firehose waterproof and just too hot to wear above 0*c/32*f without wearing it wide open, I also own a 2020 Alpha N-3B and it is equaly as hot above 0*c, And I also own the Canada Goose Military/LE Snow Mantra which is called the "Peacekeeper", It's a Bear of a Coat and costs 10 times the cost of the Alpha N-3B, The Zipper is huge which is nice and it has 17 pockets/pouches, The Hood is about 3" deeper than the hood of an N-3B, the Slash pockets are down on your thigh and the lower extenal and internal pockets are big enough to hold an A4 folder,

The Downside of the Canada Goose parka.
Anyone who has been in cold climates knows that Velcro is useless when the temps really drops and the wool Cuffs or anything woolen you wear sticks to the velcro snagging the woolen item, This annoied me that much that I have folded the cuffs back half way and sewn them to stop them extending past the sleeves of the parka, Another major issue with the CG parka is the sleeves are very fat just above the velcro above the wrists which means that the sleeves won't fit inside the cuffs of even the huge Outdoor Research Alti Mitts and the only Mitts that work with the CG Parka are the N-4B Flyers Mitts,

Looking back on it I think the CG was a bad investement as stated above when the N-3B is layered with the correct clothing it works just as well as the CG and was in service longer than any other piece of Military clothing to date from 1959 to 2009 that in it's self has to be some kind of record. The truth is the Alpha N-3b's are exactly the same coat as they were when they were last issued all but the detachable ruff. Even the materials are the same.

I hope this helps.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Admiral George Dufek, who led an Antarctic expedition.

 

[Peter Mackin]

Seeing as everyone loves the N-3B here's a few bits of history and facts,

I have been wearing Alpha N-3B's since 1974 and have always owned them, Back in 1998 I phoned Alpha HQ to discuss the history of their N-3B's and the original wool blended N-3B's were rated to -14*f/-25.5*c the Nylon versions were always rated to -20*f/-28.88*c and when worn with the rest of the military kit the Military rated them down to -60*f/-51*c,

I asked their Tech Dept what are the Civillian versions rated at and they told me -20*f/-28.88*c, Bringing things forward to their currant N-3B's they are still the same spec as the last versions issued to the Military, I also took I Micrometer and measured the Shell thickness and it is exactly the same as the vintage versions everyone is talking about, I also checked the thickness of 2 pairs of Vintage N-4B Flyers Mitts and they measured exactly the same as well right down to 0.000mm, And the Only differance is the Ruff is now removable,

Also people have compared the N-3B's to the Canada Goose Parka's, Canada Goose Parka's all have a TEI rating with their TEI 4 are rated to -15*c to -25*c and Only their parka's rated with the TEI of 5 is rated from -30*c and below and only 2 of their Parka's have the same Snorkel Hood copied from the N-3B. As pointed out earlier when worn with the rest of the kit the N-3B will keep you warm down to -51*c/-60*f and below According to the US Military,

I own the Alpha Alaska Version "Civilian" Version of a variant of the N-3B and it is firehose waterproof and just too hot to wear above 0*c/32*f without wearing it wide open, I also own a 2020 Alpha N-3B and it is equaly as hot above 0*c, And I also own the Canada Goose Military/LE Snow Mantra which is called the "Peacekeeper", It's a Bear of a Coat and costs 10 times the cost of the Alpha N-3B, The Zipper is huge which is nice and it has 17 pockets/pouches, The Hood is about 3" deeper than the hood of an N-3B, the Slash pockets are down on your thigh and the lower extenal and internal pockets are big enough to hold an A4 folder,

The Downside of the Canada Goose parka.
Anyone who has been in cold climates knows that Velcro is useless when the temps really drops and the wool Cuffs or anything woolen you wear sticks to the velcro snagging the woolen item, This annoied me that much that I have folded the cuffs back half way and sewn them to stop them extending past the sleeves of the parka, Another major issue with the CG parka is the sleeves are very fat just above the velcro above the wrists which means that the sleeves won't fit inside the cuffs of even the huge Outdoor Research Alti Mitts and the only Mitts that work with the CG Parka are the N-4B Flyers Mitts,

Looking back on it I think the CG was a bad investement as stated above when the N-3B is layered with the correct clothing it works just as well as the CG and was in service longer than any other piece of Military clothing to date from 1959 to 2009 that in it's self has to be some kind of record. The truth is the Alpha N-3b's are exactly the same coat as they were when they were last issued all but the detachable ruff. Even the materials are the same.

I hope this helps.

Sadly what you have said regarding the jacket being unchanged is not my experience.
I was looking to replace my old alpha, bought roughly 20years ago, and ordered what was meant to be the same jacket. As soon as I opened the box I knew by the weight, the poorly sewn buttons etc I was going to be sending it back.
This wasn't a fake bought on the cheap,but bought from a reputable company in the UK. Got a full refund and bought a Bronson n-9 parka,as unfortunately they didn't have a n-3b at the time of ordering. The n-9 is a cracking jacket, my only complaint is that the hood is a bit short.
If anyone is selling a quality n-3b in the uk please gimme a pm,

 

[Aloysius]

I'm wearing my Buzz Rickson's N-3B and this is really an amazing jacket. I went with the 'slim' version because I won't be wearing it atop as many layers as the military sizing is designed for, but sized up to L, to give me a bit more room that can easily be cinched down, and just a little extra length. Sizing definitely worked, and as ever the Toyo team's pattern work is excellent.

 

[Doctor Damage]

The great Paul Simon in an N3B parka in 1972. Looks like a civilian repro?

 

[Aloysius]

The great Paul Simon in an N3B parka in 1972. Looks like a civilian repro?

View attachment 464593

Surplus/civilian market stock is more likely than repro.

 

[Edward]

Yeah, I remember the N3A/B style being huge in the UK civilian market in the 70s. A lot of kids wore them to school; I remember after they fell hard out of fashion in NI about 1984/5ish, there were still a few kids wore them for school coats as hand-me-downs (and were often brutally mocked for them; kids are cruel). A paradigm example of how they were worn can be seen in some early images of Feargal Sharkey with the Undertones: see, for example, here, on BBC Top of the Pops in 1979:

He was often seen in that style of coat, even long after the purchase of the Mascot Black Night [sic] leather jacket that he was often seen wearing in band shoots, particularly for the debut album cover.

Sharkey of course (and to a great extent the rest of the Undertones boys) was well known for having a sort of anti-style style. Like a prototype Jarvis Cocker in some ways. This was never high fashion as such, but it was how the masses dressed in Derry (and Belfast, and the rest of NI at the time). Those boys even wore flares for quite a while - a definitive break from Punk Rock Norms, and arguably all the more punk rock as a result.

By the early eighties, a lot of folks were drifting into MA1 style jackets round our way, though those quickly became a bit 'edgy' having developed a media association with the racist end of the skinhead movement. By the turn of the 90s, that had disappeared, and such nylon 'bomber jackets' were widely worn (always in black, often with a dodgy print of Bros or Kylie Minogue on the back) by mostly female pop fans. I recall them being especially associated with those who followed Bros.

It's something that often amuses me, and shows the vagaries of fashion. Certain things of course come around every so often: wide lapels in the 30s, late 40s, and 70s... A lot of folks here think of them as an exclusively 70s thing. Notably, these nylon USAF jackets here in the UK would be readily associated with the 70s and the eighties by the mainstream as that was when they really troubled mainstream, civilian fashion here, as distinct from the roots of the designs in the 1950s.

 

[Aloysius]

A heads-up. It strikes me that this would be an extremely good time to search Yahoo! Japan auctions for an N-3B from Rickson’s, McCoy’s, or indeed even vintage USAF issue as the typical savings plus low yen ought to make for some great deals.

I bought a Rickson’s jacket at about 70% off earlier this year, and that was before the yen dropped.

 

[bn1966]

Just purchased a Civvy Alpha version of the N-3B in XL, one of the USA made ones..took me a year to find one, very nice condition & fits a treat….

 

[handymike]

I have a Spiewak Golden Fleece from the mid-90s sz 48 if someone wants......

 

[Canuck Panda]

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