USAF N-3B parkas - Let's talk about them!!

[Doctor Damage]

Oh geezuz, don't get me started about internet misinformation... sometimes I think we shut the fkking thing down and go back to books. Having never seen photos of USN personnel wearing N3B parkas the supposed connection with the USN (which I've seen said someplace else, too) is bullshit. None of the USAF stuff is suitable for wet conditions since wool doesn't dry out and if it's sandwiched between two layers of water resistant nylon it will never dry out and can't be force-dried. That said, I'm sure some senior USN officers got hold of USAF parkas and whatnot and wore them but guys scrambling around on a flight deck or any deck in crap weather weren't wearing them (as per photos). Also, the N3 parkas wouldn't do fkk all at -60 or whatever, that's FRIGGIN COLD, and only animal furs (from arctic animals) have any chance of keeping you warm when it gets that low (or a NASA spacesuit with built-in heating system, etc).

 

[Fifty150]

While it's nice to be an enthusiast, a collector, or whatever; enjoy the jacket. Whether it's good for -60℉, why does it matter? Which one of us is actually going to where it's that cold. I have a few and I like them. I know the limitations of 1940's technology, and that it's not waterproof. I use a poncho.


It must be difficult to filter information from misinformation. Sort of like sifting fake news and junk science. And don't believe anything on Wikipedia as verified fact.

 

[Doctor Damage]

While it's nice to be an enthusiast, a collector, or whatever; enjoy the jacket. Whether it's good for -60℉, why does it matter? Which one of us is actually going to where it's that cold. I have a few and I like them. I know the limitations of 1940's technology, and that it's not waterproof. I use a poncho.

I always get the sense that the people writing up those articles, aside from regurgitating any nonsense they hear or read, fetishize old clothing as if you could go outside in a vintage N3B parka over a t-shirt and be warm in arctic temps!

 

[Fifty150]

as if you could go outside in a vintage N3B parka over a t-shirt and be warm in arctic temps!

I think that a lot of people do go outside with a pair of jeans & a redshirt, then expect whatever jacket or coat to keep them warm. For some people, layering means put on a hoodie. With a lot of jackets, this could work, down to about 40℉. The average person doesn't have ECWCS gear. ECWCS layers with fleece and SoftShell. 300g fleece which is only found on more expensive civilian brands. Military specifications for SoftShell far exceeds fashion brands in performance. The fleece and SoftShell jackets found at Walmart are lighter weight and grade, and will not perform at the same level. It's like a Wal-Mart leather jacket compared to a real motorcycle jacket.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

Writing like that is a consequence of the 24/7 news cycle culture. News networks and websites that have a constant feed of articles are in the same boat. They have to create content (ie copy, as known in the business) at an alarming rate that doesn't allow for fact checking or research. Not much different than a factory assembly line. They simply have to fill time and space to constantly gather, and reward, your attention. I remember some online article about Olivia Newton-John's Xandadu vinyl album being worth thousands of dollars, and that claim was entirely based on this journalist accidentally running into an Amazon listing for Xanadu at $2000. How can that be? Some sellers think, "Why not? A sucker born every minute." So they throw up things on their Amazon store at ridiculous prices. They only need one gullible sucker to bite the hook. That record is actually worth $.25 at Goodwill, and the chances of ever selling a copy even at a break-even couple of dollars on Amazon is slim. There's no loss to them by listing it at $2000. There's only potential big reward. Maybe not the best analogy, but that's how I see most online journalism, especially from websites that focus on pop culture and behavior. There's a lot of crap reporting on cable TV as well, but it's not anywhere near the junk level of the internet. So now a bunch of people who only dabble in music or have their parents' records think they have a $2000 record in a box in the basement.

Fashion blogs and websites are some of the worst at this. They cater to a young crowd that is accustomed to a huge volume of headlines constantly hitting their feed on their phone. You get misleading and misinformed articles like that because of this situation.

 

[Fifty150]

 

[Fifty150]

Fashion blogs and websites are some of the worst at this.

Even NY Times has Fake News

 

[Fifty150]

And this is the guy's version of the famous Amazon coat. I can see why Jeff Bezos is making so much.

 

[Fifty150]

And now that the coat is endorsed by Oprah, this may be a new Fedora Lounge favorite.

 

[Fifty150]

I read all of those blogs, reviews, and fake news articles. Then looked at the company website and the Amazon webpages. I almost fell for it. The hype was very hard to resist. After all, it sounded too good to be true. This great jacket, and for such a low price. Buying direct from the seller's website was even cheaper than Amazon. Then I remembered that there were other great jackets out there. In today's market, great jackets can be found for even less money. If I wanted down, known brand retailers already had down jackets on sale at this time of the year. And I already own a lot of jackets. I just don't need this one. But for a couple of minutes, daydreaming and window shopping at my keyboard, I could have had a coat endorsed by Oprah, and envied by literally thousands of moms.

 

[Fifty150]

Canada Goose Expedition parkas which the following news item and photos from the USAF official website make clear.

That Canada Goose must be quite a jacket.

 

[Doctor Damage]

please: no more of this weird stuff!
it's hurting my eyes/brain, haha

 

[Fifty150]

That red jacket is popular in New York.

 

[Fifty150]

At The DMV. I did not rip the parka off to see what she was wearing under it, or check the label for brand.

 

[Doctor Damage]

^ One thing I've noticed is that in a post-real-fur world they've finally figured out how to make synthetic fur that looks more amazing than real fur. Here and there I see someone wearing a parka with a fur ruff that looks absolutely incredible, as good as any of those old N3 or N2 parkas with the real fur. Now why Alpha still uses that cheap-looking sh*tty fake fur on their flight jackets is beyond me.

 

[Fifty150]

why Alpha still uses that cheap-looking sh*tty fake fur on their flight jackets is beyond me.

Cost. The more they spend, the less they make per piece. But you never know. If enough customers contacted them, and demanded a better product, they might listen. Isn't that why they now sell "slim fit" versions of their outerwear? Same way Levi's offered a very expensive pair of Made in USA jeans. VW brought a "New Beetle" back to the market. Chevrolet brought the Camaro back. Knight Rider came back in a Ford Mustang. Coca Cola dropped "New Coke", and brought back "Old Coke". The US Air Force brought the A-2 back. I want Quaaludes back. I just hope that Renault LeCar isn't relaunched.

 

[Setok]

Has anybody seen Valley Apparel?

As others have mentioned, there's a close history between Valley and Alpha. But with Valley their jackets are made in the US, and they are a military contractor (although it's not clear if they still provide N3Bs to the military). So basically you are getting US-made parkas from the same factory that used to make Alphas, at a lower price. I'm this close to hitting 'buy'...

The only thing stopping me is the question of whether I'd be happier with the greyish blue GI version with the cotton mix fabric (and the fact I already have an m65 Fishtail Parka — kind of the army equivalent to the N3B, and which I didn't get to use once this whole warm winter).

 

[Peacoat]

As others have mentioned, there's a close history between Valley and Alpha. But with Alpha their jackets are made in the US, and they are a military contractor (although it's not clear if they still provide N3Bs to the military). So basically you are getting US-made parkas from the same factory that used to make Alphas, at a lower price. I'm this close to hitting 'buy'...

But are they still made in the US? I had heard they had shut down production in their Knoxville facility and moved to China, but could be remembering it wrong. Is Alpha still a military contractor? And my third question, is the polyester inner lining in production since after the F model as warm as the old wool interlining?

There are members who keep up with this sort of thing and who will know the answers. @Doctor Damage comes to mind.

 

[Setok]

But are they still made in the US? I had heard they had shut down production in their Knoxville facility and moved to China, but could be remembering it wrong. Is Alpha still a military contractor? And my third question, is the polyester inner lining in production since after the F model as warm as the old wool interlining?

There are members who keep up with this sort of thing and who will know the answers. @Doctor Damage comes to mind.

Sorry, I mistyped. It's Valley Apparel that makes their N3B in the US. Alpha specifically does not. They moved production to the Far East. I also believe Alpha is no longer a military contractor. Certainly not for their N3Bs. I now fixed that, apologies!

 

[Doctor Damage]

But are they still made in the US? I had heard they had shut down production in their Knoxville facility and moved to China, but could be remembering it wrong. Is Alpha still a military contractor? And my third question, is the polyester inner lining in production since after the F model as warm as the old wool interlining?

There are members who keep up with this sort of thing and who will know the answers. @Doctor Damage comes to mind.

I used to keep track of this, but don't anymore. But it's clear that Alpha hasn't been a gov't contractor for a long time, at least in terms of flyers jackets, and have been doing China manufacture for probably 15+ years by now. The last time I checked a few years back Valley was the military supplier, but probablly there's another now. Of course these days the only flyers jackets that are procured are nomex/aramid CWU type. I was saving pics of CWU tags but stopped. I suspect the newest ones (with the "new" nomex cloth with matte finish instead of the shiny finish) are not Valley, but that's just my memory throwing up a data point. I should get back on top of this!

I realize this thread is about N3B parkas, but for what it's worth Alpha made N2B jackets deep into the 1980s for the military and there's always a lot for sale on e-Bay with military tags. Checking a couple photos of tags on my hard drive, the insulation in the last N2B version (F spec, I think?) was "interlining: 100% synthetic fiber w/ctn covering" by which they presumably meant polyfill insulation with a cotton layer backing. That cotton layer would have gone a long ways towards making them fairly warm although probably not as warm as the earlier wool/cotton versions. My memory is telling me that I once saw an Alpha N2B jacket with the civilian tag but with the cotton-backed insulation, so I imagine for a year or two after the military contract ended they re-tagged surplus jackets and sold them on the civilian market, before switching to normal civilian versions with polyfill insulation only. Of course all of Alpha's products have been polyfill insulation only for a long time.

As always, Peacoat's semi-OCD about this stuff has got me intrigued and I'll dig around and see what I can find. As far as I know, the N3B military parkas always had wool/cotton insulation before switching to a thick synthetic insulation, while Alpha's civilian versions always had polyfill only; I've never seen anything otherwise.