Touchy impression or a part of war that must be told???

[thecardigankid]

I'm curious as to what you guys would think about this impression for a WW2 living history, you as individuals who enjoy history not a common spectator as a common spectator can get offended by anything under the sun. What would you think of a group doing an accurate Graves Registration Company impression. It's one of those grim realities of war, and can be done in a tasteful manner but as history lovers yourself would you find this impression too touchy?

 

[Chas]

I look at reenacting in an askance manner- just an opinion and a general impression. It strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. I'm not sure how you're going to reenacting collecting dead bodies and body parts. Digging them up again and relocating them to permanent cemeteries; collecting the personal effects and sending them to the relatives.

I suspect that some might be offended, and some might think that it's a great idea. Very difficult to say.

 

[thecardigankid]

I look at reenacting in an askance manner- just an opinion and a general impression. It strikes me as somewhat ridiculous. I'm not sure how you're going to reenacting collecting dead bodies and body parts. Digging them up again and relocating them to permanent cemeteries; collecting the personal effects and sending them to the relatives.
.

Obviously one wouldn't dig up the dead bodies nor have dead bodies or parts on display, everything would be done in a respectful manner. The personal effects would honestly be a great touch (not sending them obviously) but it gives those viewing the display a personal touch that the guys we represent really lived and died and were just ordinary people. I think a lot of spectators forget at a reenactment or living history that war isn't an entertainment that it was a gruesome thing.

Your post sounded a little condescending like it was something I intended to make a spectacle out of for a chance to gross people out. Do a little research on the Quartermaster Graves Registration Companies, they have a very fascinating history and they played an important part in honoring our servicemen killed by giving them a proper burial and making sure they wouldn't be left behind on some distant battlefield. Their story is just as important as the elite soldiers story is.

 

[Spitfire]

And an impression of WWII History of the guys who handled soap, towels, new underwear etc for the GIs.
And while we are at it - an impression of the guys who arranged all the hookers and brothels in Italy, France, The Netherlands etc.



No, seriously: I think everybody is aware of all the less flattering and heroic things about war. We all know that war has it's other side too. So why?

 

[scottyrocks]

Your post sounded a little condescending like it was something I intended to make a spectacle out of for a chance to gross people out. Do a little research on the Quartermaster Graves Registration Companies, they have a very fascinating history and they played an important part in honoring our servicemen killed by giving them a proper burial and making sure they wouldn't be left behind on some distant battlefield. Their story is just as important as the elite soldiers story is.

Perhaps you helped answer your own question. I read Chas' reply without any condescension noticed. He was just stating the obvious. People dealing with death generally don't like obvious. What you want to do is indeed a touchy subject. If you decide to to it at all, I would suggest proceeding with the utmost caution and care.

 

[Phantomfixer]

IMO it is no different than the docs and nurses in the medical corp I see at Reading. Their tent even went to have the blood and gore from an "operation". They had wounded etc. As long as it was in the best interest of the event, I would say have at it, but be ready for the tears.
John

 

[Edward]

No, seriously: I think everybody is aware of all the less flattering and heroic things about war. We all know that war has it's other side too. So why?

Unfortunately, I don't think they are. All too often, even in vintage circles, I see the war celebrated (and I use that word deliberately) as some great team sport.... Don't get me wrong, I love my Irvin, my B3 and I respect the guys who went and did a very dirty job none of them probably wanted to do, but let's not forget what was on the receiving end of that too in Dresden or whatever.... I've long been interested in history, and I hate to see a sanitised, 2authorised",comfortable version thereof peddled. Maybe I'm just over-sensitive to that, given that I grew up in a place where two very different histories are told, each with a very specific bias. My mother's experience of being threatened with a stabbing (and visited by paramilitaries) at times for trying to teach an objective version doesn't help.

 

[Icthruu74]

I'm not much into reenacting myself, but I have been to a few civil war reenactments. It was always a bit odd to me that they end with a bunch of "dead bodies" on the field. And then those dead/wounded get up and walk off and have a nice lemonade when the battle is done.

One that I attended had a surgeon's tent, complete with buckets of "amputated" arms and legs. Some of the people walking thru thought it was intended to be humorous, and when the "doctor" corrected them, they became upset. It seems that they came to only see the "good and romantic" portions.

I agree that we too often view WWII as a great romantic time, when in fact it was not. My grandfather was in the Pacific and never said a word about what he did or saw there. My wife's grandfather landed on the beach on D-Day and was involved in the battle of the bulge, and towards the end of his life told me about some of the things he saw and did. It is quite sobering, and shouldn't be forgotten.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

A friend's Dad (recently passed away) was with Graves Registration in Normandy. Jon said that his Dad burned all of his pictures from the war back in the 1970's and never discussed WW2 at all. My Dad (passed away the same week) was in the South Pacific and I have loads of pictures and he was FAMOUS as a high school teacher for his WW2 stories.

If you want an off the wall reenacting gig, try a mess tent, you'll be WILDLY popular, especially if you don't fully reenact the Spam.

Later

 

[thecardigankid]

Well, a graves registration impression can easily be done respectfully and without even the hint of a dead body and still be a fully accurate impression and drive the point home to the public. If you look at the history of graves registration during ww2 there were many different jobs to it. I am doing this impression at a living history in November, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Mike

 

[fortworthgal]

I'm a WWII collector and a reenactor, although I really lean much more heavily toward "living history" - doing things like displays & veteran's ceremonies rather than battles and the like. I am a firm believer that we need to remember the sacrifices and the painful parts of war as well, not just the fun pretty things. So many times I see reenactors or vintage-o-philes who are only interested in the fun things like hangar dances, burning blanks, and buying the latest big frilly hat. There was so much more to WWII and it wasn't all pleasant.

I've seen SS & Hitler Youth at events, so I don't see why graves registration couldn't also be included (in a tasteful way). I think it could be really interesting, and it would certainly be something different at an event. Personally I think it should be only as a display and not actually reenacted, if that makes sense. Display some items, uniformed guys able to answer questions/man the display, that sort of thing. "Reenacting" it by going out and actually digging or whatever would be in poor taste, IMHO. Yes they dealt with dead bodies, but there's a line between just representing/remembering history and ghoulishness. I think this is definitely an area that needs to be handled very carefully to avoid being offensive or inappropriate.

I should add that I'm also speaking as someone whose grandfather was killed in action in Belgium in 1944 and buried by graves registration guys.

 

[thecardigankid]

Hi

A friend's Dad (recently passed away) was with Graves Registration in Normandy. Jon said that his Dad burned all of his pictures from the war back in the 1970's and never discussed WW2 at all.

I had a good friend growing up whos uncle was also Graves Registration (well it wasn't confirmed he was graves registration what was confirmed is that he helped bury the bodies that were on Omaha beach) he could never fully deal with it either too painful a memory.

 

[thecardigankid]

Fortworthgal,

I fully agree, I couldn't imagine actually going out and trying to collect bodies, definitely wouldn't be fun. But a living history display in the rear can be done and in a very respectful manner at that.

 

[Rathdown]

Just spoke to my 92 year old neighbor, a retired 2-star and WWII ETO combat vet. His take was that most of the guys in GR were there either as punishment or because they were ineffective as soldiers or officers. Whether or not his impressions are valid or not, it does raise a bigger question for reenactors: when not to recreate history. Do we recreate acts of cowardice, or insubordination? How about courts martial for deserters, or those soldiers who committed crimes against allied civilians? Or how about an entire penal battalion? There are a lot of unsavory aspects of war that could be reenacted.

The question is, should they?

 

[thecardigankid]

Just spoke to my 92 year old neighbor, a retired 2-star and WWII ETO combat vet. His take was that most of the guys in GR were there either as punishment or because they were ineffective as soldiers or officers. Whether or not his impressions are valid or not, it does raise a bigger question for reenactors: when not to recreate history. Do we recreate acts of cowardice, or insubordination? How about courts martial for deserters, or those soldiers who committed crimes against allied civilians? Or how about an entire penal battalion? There are a lot of unsavory aspects of war that could be reenacted.

The question is, should they?

I dont know where he got that information, but most those in the graves registration were trained in that specific field and went over as units. Now he might be thinking of the guys who actually dug the graves for the cemeteries, because a lot of times Graves Registration personnel would survey and lay out the cemeteries but they would have German Prisoners or other personnel (possibly those on punishment) to dig the graves.

I dont think Graves Registration is any more unsavory than those portraying line companies shooting and killing the enemy.

I think it gives and insight into how the dead were cared for in a combat zone, because it was an intricate process that was done with utmost care.

I'll send pics and an AAR when the impression is done and you all can decide from there if it was done in a tasteless manner.

 

[Chas]

No, seriously: I think everybody is aware of all the less flattering and heroic things about war. We all know that war has it's other side too. So why?

Which is what I was trying to say. Thanks, Spitfire.

 

[KingTigerII]

Graves Registration is not a bad impression at all! It one of those things that you don't see that often and is pretty interesting. Truck Drivers, Cooks (My favorite...Sh*t On a Shingle beats SPAM any darn day!), Graves Registration, Mechanics, Chaplins and War Corr's make events feel more like the real thing.

Now for impressions that go over the line: The German Jack wagons that get their rocks off on their Death Camp Guard impressions. There is always a group of actual Skin-Heads that just live for the satisfaction of slipping on that uniform. But I think if it was tastefully done in a display manner it'd be appropriate (A guard explaining the horrors of the holocaust to guests but not smiling about it. They take it serious and make sure the public knows that the Holocaust was a horrible part of history, that must not be forgotten and a lesson that is to be learned. At least that's my 2 cents on that one.).

You know, it's all about how you do portray it. At FIG this past January the Germans drug some "French Resistance" out of the Axis "Cafe" and executed them. Too far in my opinion but like I said, there is always that one person who goes a bit too far.

-Corey

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Just spoke to my 92 year old neighbor, a retired 2-star and WWII ETO combat vet. His take was that most of the guys in GR were there either as punishment or because they were ineffective as soldiers or officers.

One of those was Tony Bennett. Originally an infantryman, he was demoted and sent to a GR unit as punishment for eating with some black soldiers, one of whom was a high school classmate. In the segregated Army of the time many GR units were made up almost entirely of African-Americans.

 

[thecardigankid]

One of those was Tony Bennett. Originally an infantryman, he was demoted and sent to a GR unit as punishment for eating with some black soldiers, one of whom was a high school classmate. In the segregated Army of the time many GR units were made up almost entirely of African-Americans.

I don't doubt that there were African-Americans in Graves Registration units but of all the photos I have seen I have not come across one yet of an African American in a GR company.

Still though even though some were sent to GR as punishment it was not the norm for the units, all GR companies started out as regular units stateside and then deployed overseas together, they got replacements where they could, whether it was from replacements coming from the states or guys on punishment.

 

[1930artdeco]

I think you should do it. KTII said , it is something different and it it needs to be discussed. Unfortunately, we live in a sanitized world where people die in video games on t.v. Obviously done with respect and be ready for the tears, especially from the vets who remember.

Mike