They just don't compare

[Matt Deckard]

Thin wrinkly fabric that isn't really cut in a way to give him a great build.

The top one was better but look at this... I'm sure he didn't sleep in it but it sure looks like he did.

If you look at this and think it looks great then check out the pics below.

Craig and the other stars out there deserve better...

Where are the tailors that can do this? Why don't they use the fabrics that lay like this?

 

[AdmiralTofu]

The fabric definitely helps. But what really sells it, to my eyes at least, is the high waist... not only in the pants, but in the jacket, too. Especially on Gable in that first vintage picture. Daniel Craig isn't looking too bad in those pictures (except that top one -- you're right; the thin, wrinkly fabric does favors to nobody), but I've always thought the modern low waist tends to make the torso look too long, making lanky, awkward guys even more so, and guys like me with a few extra pounds, well...

As an aside... I'm more fond of the postwar Bold Look, but that first Gable picture would be perfect for, as you said, taking to a tailor and saying, "Make it lay like this." After seeing examples like that, most of today's guys look like they're wearing suits made out of paper.

-Tofu


(EDIT: ad nauseum, I know -- but dig those armholes. If I propped my arm up on something like that in any of my jackets, my biceps would be sore after a few minutes, and I'd look like a wannabe Batman. lol )

 

[Justdog]

Fabrics

I was just ruminating on this very subject as I have some Boss items that lay fantastic but are certainly not cut like this. I have High praise for modern fabrics but I find some of the Super numbers don't mean flat wrinkle free wear. If you can cut a suit like the Gable one or some of the ones I recently saw in Body and soul and Force of Evil with Garfield then were getting somewhere. Certainly Geometry , maybe parallel line, smile Is more evident today than the Geometry of the vintage cuts. That said his companions eyes make up for the loss.

 

[Jovan]

The navy pinstripe looks a lot better than the previous two to my eyes. [huh] That said, yes, we could afford to have more fabrics that drape well, look firm, and resist wrinkles. The closest we have to this in the mainstream is Thom Browne, who I think uses medium weights a lot. Some of the jackets are even made from boiled wool. Not everyone's cup of tea style wise, but it's not a bad start.

Until I got my vintage suit, all my trousers had a problem where just a few minutes of sitting made the fabric wrinkle up around my crotch. Not attractive. No such problem on the vintage ones. The only wrinkling comes from sitting on the excess fabric that '50s and earlier trousers are made with. Even then, some steam from the shower seems to do the trick most of the time. Brilliant!

 

[Feraud]

or some of the ones I recently saw in Body and soul and Force of Evil with Garfield then were getting somewhere.

I just saw Garfield in Force of Evil. Aside from a good film his suits were beautifully cut. He moved very well in the clothes.

 

[scotrace]

These are excellent illustrations. One often sees a man in a modern suit that very much carries over the outfit/look/style he wore to the gym that morning - very comfortable, wrinkled, casual sweat clothes. Modern suits like those above look like sweatshirts with lapels tacked on.

Gable's suit is a killer.

 

[surely]

check out in the last pic how there is but a single break on the pant legs. I've been shooting for that for yrs.

 

[Paisley]

Agreed--the pants are just the right length and the break is, to my eyes, perfect.

 

[Benny Holiday]

When comparing the modern flimsy suits with the vintage ones in those photos, the modern ones simply look poorly executed. Both the cut, as Admiral Tofu points out, and the weight of the fabric let them down.

I was passing a menswear shop the other day and a couple of the striped fabrics of the suits caught my eye. On first glance, the colours and shades, such as medium browns and greys with pinstripes, were reminiscent of the fabric in some of my vintage suits. Sadly, there the resemblence ended. I didn;t need to touch the material to see it was clearly the thin wrinkly fabric shown in the suits Mr Craig is wearing in the photos above. The low-waisted trousers, boxy jacket cut and too-narrow peaked lapels (for my taste, anyway ) did nothing to enhance the garments, either.

Gents, I've seen some fabrics referred to as weighing a specified number of grams per metre, such as a wool worsted/cashmere blend listed at 500 grams per metre. How does this translate in terms of the standard vintage 14 oz or 16 oz wools? Does that actually mean 14 oz per yard?

Sturdy, hard-wearing fabrics they were. Where are they today?

 

[Justdog]

Gable Suit

That looks similar to a midweight super 100 pure new wool.(gable suit) Seems when you get up there in the 150 range they seem to wrinckle a bit. A collezione fabric I have responds in several minutes. Usually if you grab the wool fabric and squeeze it for about a minute it should rebound well. The best fabric I have for rebound so far is 98 percent virgin wool 2 percent elastin. Jet jet black and excellent drape. If the gable suit was reproduced with this it would be pretty awesome.

 

[Matt Deckard]

What is the weight of the super 100? It's the density and weight that give the great drape. Higher twists don't help unless they are higher weight.

 

[surely]

To the Venerable Deckard, master of style, student of logic.

Have you not heard of strawmen & apples and oranges?

Compare the studio composed publicity pic of Gable with same of a contemporary star. I'd bet you'd still win and more convincingly.

 

[Justdog]

Weight

What is the weight of the super 100? It's the density and weight that give the great drape. Higher twists don't help unless they are higher weight.

Is seems midweight but it is a factor I am not entirely familiar with from a quantitative or numerical definition merely tactile. It is mid but definately heavier than a 120. How do you define the weight and density other than VW 100? Is that not the twist count per what ever that formula is that is arrived at? It is a question I am not entirely able to answer. Also am not familiar with the other vintage weights 16 oz and so on, is there a site which defines this?

 

[Matt Deckard]

To the Venerable Deckard, master of style, student of logic.

Have you not heard of strawmen & apples and oranges?

Compare the studio composed publicity pic of Gable with same of a contemporary star. I'd bet you'd still win and more convincingly.

Stewart candid suit that looks fitting.

Craig for the cover of GQ. Light weight suit that looks like it is floating away from his body

Gable

 

[scotrace]

Have a look at some older threads that discuss thread counts (100's, 120's etc) . Higher numbers have become erroneously associated with better fabrics.

Gable's suit is probably a 60's-80's count, in a 14-16 oz. weight.

 

[Justdog]

Thread Counts

Have a look at some older threads that discuss thread counts (100's, 120's etc) . Higher numbers have become erroneously associated with better fabrics.

Gable's suit is probably a 60's-80's count, in a 14-16 oz. weight.

Yes I believe Zanella does not play the numbers game as it is called.
Thanks for the link

 

[Matt Deckard]

I do think that the pendulum is swinging back toward the heavier with Banana republic and Gap carrying thicker wools for their jackets.

Brroks Brothers is catching up as well though it is unfortunately with their tom Browne garments which look foolish on anyone with a penis.

 

[Justdog]

Wool generally

I do think that the pendulum is swinging back toward the heavier with Banana republic and Gap carrying thicker wools for their jackets.

Brooks Brothers is catching up as well though it is unfortunately with their tom Browne garments which look foolish on anyone with a penis.

Whats really interesting is that 100 percent wool has still been shown to have better wicking and insulating properties than the so called modern fabrics designed for this supposed purpose and costing pretty absurd amounts. Wool In a reasonable weight will breath properly and last. Getting a feel for the fabrics helps. I am pretty surprised at how thin some of these wools are getting. I think the reason , after reading Scotraces link for a while, that my 100s went for 200 dollars is that there were 120 140 150 available. The average person as you state is being sold that thin light wool thinking lighter is better. I am going to check out a few tailors around here and Toronto and see whats going on.

 

[Jovan]

Not sure what you're getting at. Most of the fabrics on high end suits are 100% wool, just not very durable. Unless you mean the things like BrooksCool... I agree they are pretty silly.

 

[Justdog]

Wool

Not sure what you're getting at. Most of the fabrics on high end suits are 100% wool, just not very durable. Unless you mean the things like BrooksCool... I agree they are pretty silly.

Just a general statement that even the modern fabrics do not have the natural inherent qualities wool has for other uses not just suits. Was not refering to suits per se but wool as a fabric not being refined to simulate a synthetic when a wool of midweight has those qualities without making it paper thin. For example they still make board shirts pretty much the same.They still do what they have been doing for 50 or more years, while synthetics performance wear is good it still cant beat properly weighted and constructed wool garments the way you have described the activities you wear them in. I meant that I am going to see a few tailor shops and check out the weights and fabrics of wool today. Have not been to a tailor for a while but am interested to see what the fabrics they use around here are like.