The more vueltas in panama hats, the higher the Quality?

[Dreispitz]

There is the thesis around that a pamnama hat´s quality can - next to the evenness of weave, colour, waves per square inch ... - be determined by the number of rings in the crown.

How can it be that some high end artworks around 1900+ wpsi do have fewer vueltas than a 1400 wpsi one?

Is there a quality relation of tight and even high wpsi weave and comparably few vueltas? If so, does it demand higher skill from the weaver? Longer fine straw? More concentration? .... ?

 

[duggap]

As the hat grows in size the weaver must add additional strands of straw. Each time a new row of straw is added it creates a vuelta. The more vueltas you have on a hat the finer the weave of the hat.

 

[Dreispitz]

As the hat grows in size the weaver must add additional strands of straw. Each time a new row of straw is added it creates a vuelta. The more vueltas you have on a hat the finer the weave of the hat.

That is the general thinking. However, I remember someone mentioning this phenomenon in another thread and I now did notice the same in a direct comparison. So, what is the reason? It must have to do with diferent weaving techniques or the material used. Does it have to do with when or at what stage the weaver has to ad or does ad new straw?

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

I have hear/read about finely woven Panamas having as many as 42 vueltas but my experience is that not all fine ones have so many.

This one has only 10 or 11 vueltas but the hat has apprx. 2,500 weaves per inch.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Is there a quality relation of tight and even high wpsi weave and comparably few vueltas? If so, does it demand higher skill from the weaver? Longer fine straw? More concentration? .... ?

I have wondered this too because of the hat I showed above. I'd like to think that mine is an example of not only very fine weaving but of intentionally rising to the challenge of employing very long straw (and weaving sessions) in order to minimize the vuelta count. Makes me think the artist behind this one was really showing off.

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The only sense I've ever been able to make of the whole thing is that while fine Montecristis can have 10 to 40+ vueltas, the more course Cuencas will always be at the lower count of around 6 to 10 vueltas. It's possible for a fine hat to have few vueltas but not for a course hat to have many of them is what I get out of it.

 

[Dreispitz]

I have wondered this too because of the hat I showed above. I'd like to think that mine is an example of not only very fine weaving but of intentionally rising to the challenge of employing very long straw (and weaving sessions) in order to minimize the vuelta count. Makes me think the artist behind this one was really showing off.

-------

The only sense I've ever been able to make of the whole thing is that while fine Montecristis can have 10 to 40+ vueltas, the more course Cuencas will always be at the lower count of around 6 to 10 vueltas. It's possible for a fine hat to have few vueltas but not for a course hat to have many of them is what I get out of it.

HPS, your hat is amaizing!!! I cannot say this often enough!

Definately a proof of the hypothesis, that tha finest straw hats are not necessarily the ones featuring the most vueltas!

 

[Dreispitz]

Here are two examples:

ca. 1400 WPSI and ca. 1900 WPSI




Note that the finer hat has got the fewer vueltas!

On HPJ´s example one can see, that the circles are even more regular and the distance between each newly added in straw to the next one on the same circle is narrower! Quite a tour de force to weave!

 

[Dreispitz]

The question now is, have we found a so far neglected criterion for over the top hats in terms of higher WPSI and at the same time comparatively fewer vueltas?

Does this weaving method imply higher craftsmanship, more weaving time, better material?

Is it even necessary to weave this style to achieve an even linen like appearence of the hat, after a certin amount of WPSI is reached?

Is it only to be found in the best quality hats?

 

[HungaryTom]

WUNDERBARE PANAMAHUETE!!!!!!

Here are two examples:

ca. 1400 WPSI and ca. 1900 WPSI




Note that the finer hat has got the fewer vueltas!

On HPJ´s example one can see, that the circles are even more regular and the distance between each newly added in straw to the next one on the same circle is narrower! Quite a tour de force to weave!

DREISPITZ - HUT AB! HATS OFF TO DREISPITZ PANAMA HATS.
:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

1400 and 1900 wpsi are absolutely beautiful also the other hat you displayed at 300+ wpsi on the Canal.

I think if one sees your hats it is only words of acknowledeent that are proper.

Tom.

 

[HungaryTom]

The question now is, have we found a so far neglected criterion for over the top hats in terms of higher WPSI and at the same time comparatively fewer vueltas?

Does this weaving method imply higher craftsmanship, more weaving time, better material?

Is it even necessary to weave this style to achieve an even linen like appearence of the hat, after a certin amount of WPSI is reached?

Is it only to be found in the best quality hats?

The superfino Montecristi are made in a geographically restricted area. The raw material is the same. I read that the finer hats need more cogollos (palm fronds) to get woven, maybe because the weaver selects better fibers and there is a logic that if thin strands must be found of the same or similar color, there is more waste (discolored strands, weaker strands etc.) that must be rejected.

I myself have also panama hats where the lower weavecount has more vueltas but the specimens are both great.

Tom

 

[Dreispitz]

DREISPITZ - HUT AB! HATS OFF TO DREISPITZ PANAMA HATS.
:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

1400 and 1900 wpsi are absolutely beautiful also the other hat you displayed at 300+ wpsi on the Canal.

I think if one sees your hats it is only words of acknowledeent that are proper.

Tom.

Hálásan köszönöm!!! I also admire your collection of fine Panamas! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Dayonfire]

Wow...2,500?

Gene,

Wow. Where did you get this hat????

Michael

I have hear/read about finely woven Panamas having as many as 42 vueltas but my experience is that not all fine ones have so many.

This one has only 10 or 11 vueltas but the hat has apprx. 2,500 weaves per inch.

 

[Chiliarches]

Gene,

Wow. Where did you get this hat????

Michael

Pardon me for answering (I just happen to be here)...this was one of Gene's eBay specials. One of the best eBay hat purchases ever, beyond any doubt.

Here is an entire thread on it -

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=41306