The Dance Snob

[catsmeow]

Seriously though I need to start learning some dance steps so I don't have to be that tough guy in the corner that says "No... I'm sorry doll I don't dance"-DocIndyJones

so..have you taken the plunge?? are you dancing yet??

 

[Paisley]

I can't believe i found this thread. It bugs me too that leads don't bother to ask you. They just want to look good and show off all the time. My friend is good, if he spots friends sitting around he'll ask them. It's nice to have a guy ask you, rather than me ask and feel desperate. I know so many ladies that go through the same thing.

My solution to this has been to take solo jazz dance classes. I know it's OK to ask guys to dance, but running around finding partners all night just isn't my style. Not only can I now get up and dance anytime I feel like it, but it's improved my social dancing. The vocabulary of movement has somehow found its way into my lindy. I think it also gets me more partners: guys can see I'm willing and able to dance.

As for guys who get into their own dancing instead of paying a little more attention to their partner, oh, well. Nobody's perfect.

 

[reetpleat]

First time I have seen this thread so I will weigh in. I spent five years learning and practicing dancing. I am pretty good, or so I think. When I go to a dance, on top of looking for friends and people to chat with, I do three things. Look for women I know who are good dancers, look for cute girls, and look for good dancers I don't know.

the cute girls, i just want to dance with to meet them and say hi. But if they are poor dancers I probably will not be asking them much more. i may chat and be nice, but not dance much.

I go to have fun and having fun to me is for the most part, dancing at a pretty high level. Not that the follower has to be the perfect. But she needs to have a certain level of competance and be able to give me what I need to make the dance work.

Now, if I dance with a girl who isn't so good, i will simplify my level to where she can do fine and hopefully will have fun. If I ask a girl to dance, I will either teach her if she does not know how, or do a dance or level she can do.

And if a woman asks me to dance, I will never turn her down.

When I was in SF and felt more of a scene, I did occasionally dance with people I didn't know just to make them feel welcome and part of the scene, but I am not so connected now.

Here is the thing. There are a lot of women out there who choose to learn to dance in a certain style, from certain teachers and have danced for years but they still can not do a swing out or give proper tension because they have chosen to learn that way. They are no fun to dance with for me so why should I dance with them? Of course, they might not be so into my style and not want to dance with me either.

If a girl is just a beginner, I will always make the effort to have fun with her if I ask or she asks. But I don't spend a lot of my time dancing with beginners. I do dance a lot with women I am probably better than and help them improve and practice, and occasionally, if she is beginner enough and does not mind I will give sojme tips. I also dance with women who are above my level and I appreciate their dancing with me, bit I am not so sure if it helps me improve. Just dancing is how you improve. I am not so sure you need to dance with great dancers.

But i feel that beginner dancers should dance with beginners and intermediates, and experts if the expert wants to, and the intermediate dancers should dance with beginners and intermediates and experienced. But I paid my dues. I was a beginnner and asked all the other beginners to dance, and i was an intermediate dancer and danced with a lot of beginners and intermediate dancers.

I think any intermediate dancer should dance with beginners because they can still have fun and get better through it. But a beginner, unless she is quite a natural, will not have much to offer an experienced dancer in terms of dancing.

Now mind you, this is lindy. I can have fun with any decent beginner doing east coast swing or balboa, or swaying around fox trot style. East coast swing is so easy I routinely teach women to dance and have a lot of fun with them,.

But lindy is different. The swing out is hard to get right and do smoothly and doing swing outs that don't flow is not fun at all.

So, if a beginner asks me to dance, I will always comply with a smile on my face. But I am not going to go out of my way to ask them.

I am also picky about style, and will usually not ask girls to dance if I don't like their style becaue I don't really care to dance in their style and they can not follow mine. I do expect a follower to follow.

In the end, I don't think anyone should be a snob. Bit I don't think that beginners need to dance with experts to get better. Down in SF we all got better dancing with each other.
It might be hard for a casual dancer to understand, but for me lindy is a serious thing and I pursue it seriously. If my goal was just to swy around the floor I wouldn't care so much. In fact, my love life in Sf probably would have been much beter if I were just a casual social dancer, but I take it too seriously. Not to oseriosly to not be having fun. I love dancing and alwasy enjoy it.

Well, best of luck to all the new dancers having fun and getting better.

 

[reetpleat]

In Texas in the early 80's, my cousin and I wanted to practice 2-stepping and an occasional polka in the worst way (Louisiana Saturday Night, Cotton-Eyed Joe). But the lovely Texas ladies would have none of dancing with a clumsy yankee.

*sniffle*

I know the feeling. As confidant as I feel at any swing dance, I go to this country bar in teh middle of Seattle on occasion. Very odd. It is not a hipster joint. It is this odd honky tonk right where you do not expect it. I want to dance more but feel intimidated. I need to relearn the cowboy cha cha.

Also, when I go salsa dancing, I feel a little intimidated. Either they are used to dancing with very experienced Latinos, or with guys that they took a class with and know all the same steps. So either way, I often get attitude like I don't know what I am doing. Partly my fault and partly theirs I guess. But I jsut suck it up. So different from swing though.

 

[Vintage Betty]

Boy do I have a great story for you about dance snobs.

About 20 years ago, I was taking Scottish Dance Classes. Apparently, there is a tradition at the end of class to attend a Scottish Dance with a live band in San Francisco in an oh-so-exciting gymnasium (one of the large ones). This was a monthly occurance.

Our little beginner class all got together, and went to this event. And we sat and sat. Great live band, and NO ONE would ask any of us to dance. They wouldn't even look at us.

Sooo........

Yup, you know what happened, because I'm the shy, subtle type.

I was in the corner of the room and proceeded to ask every single man who was sitting down to dance with me.

About 200 men turned me down. Not one of them would dance with me.

So here I am, at the other end of the gymnasium, looking back at 200 men who just turned me down. The band was still playing, watching to see what I'd do. The 200 men who just turned me down were watching me, to see what I'd do. My classmates were watching me, to see what I'd do.

What would you do? [huh]
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Yup, I started back along the same wall, and started asking the same 200 men to dance with me. About 10 or 20 men in, I kindly asked an elderly woman if I could dance with her husband. She laughed, and told me to "take him all evening, I've had him for 50 years!" lol

So he and I danced, and I made sure he had the best time of the evening. And we danced one or two more dances (he was getting tired), and I walked him back to his wife, thanking her profusely, and than started asking men to dance with me again.

So, by the end of the evening, I danced some dances, had two men ASK me to dance, and I made sure they had a great time too. And than a guy came up (who previously refused me) and said..."I meant to ask you to dance"...but the band ended the evening.

Turns out, I was the only person in our little dance group who danced the entire evening.

Someone asked me what I thought of all those men who wouldn't dance with me. My response? "Their loss."

:cheers1: to people who at least try to make the evening their own!

 

[Paisley]

We Get What we Give

Dan Newsome, who is a national champion, an expert among experts, dances with newbies and encourages others to do so. But there are other "experts" who aren't nearly as good who not only won't dance with a newbie, but won't even acknowledge their existence when they pass them or sit next to them. I ran into one of them last month who had moved away and was visiting. I'd improved a lot in the five years since he danced once with me, realized I had a lot to learn, and wouldn't even look at me. This time, he actually condescended to ask me to dance after seeing what I could do. Gee, so I'm finally worthy of his attention! Uh, no thanks. I have plenty of other wonderful partners--both as dancers and as people--to occupy my time. Why would I want to be around people who snubbed me then or snub my best friend now?

Did I mention that my best guy friend Joe, one of the most popular people I've ever met, who gets asked out by girls young enough to be his granddaughter, dances with every newbie he can find?

 

[Paisley]

Me, Me, Me is Dull, Dull, Dull

Boy do I have a great story for you about dance snobs.

About 20 years ago, I was taking Scottish Dance Classes. Apparently, there is a tradition at the end of class to attend a Scottish Dance with a live band in San Francisco in an oh-so-exciting gymnasium (one of the large ones). This was apparently, a monthly occurance.

We all got together, our little beginner class and went together. And we sat and sat. Great live band, and NO ONE would ask any of us to dance. They wouldn't even look at us.

Sounds kind of like the time I had at the 2003 Denver Lindy Exchange. I never went back to another one.

You know, I used to visit a chat board where these cliques hung out. They couldn't figure out why they couldn't meet anyone to date outside of their circle and why so few newbies stuck around. lol

 

[reetpleat]

Good for you. Make your own way and don't take no for an answer. But it is a shame you had to do that. I hope they felt ashamed of themselves. Even though I don't aske a lot of beginners to dance, I will never refuse a request. I would be way too embarrassed. that is just plain rude.

Reminds me of a story I heard from a tango dancer back in Argentina back in the thirties or so.

He said the women would be quite discriminating as to ability. And all the men would line up on one end and women on the other. And for a guy to walk across and ask a woman to dance took a lot of nerve becaus it was a long wlk back if you got turned down.

So for the men, I guess you had to have some nerve to get any better by practicing.

I don't think that is so cool either, but many women in Salsa will be this way. I think it is often their own insecurity and fear of looking bad.

On the other hand, I have asked women to dance certain styles and it is obvious tha they are not having any fun and are being very bored with my entry level limitations. I just tough it out, but generally seek out dancers at or slightly above my level.

 

[reetpleat]

Dan Newsome, who is a national champion, an expert among experts, dances with newbies and encourages others to do so. But there are other "experts" who aren't nearly as good who not only won't dance with a newbie, but won't even acknowledge their existence when they pass them or sit next to them. I ran into one of them last month who had moved away and was visiting. I'd improved a lot in the five years since he danced once with me, realized I had a lot to learn, and wouldn't even look at me. This time, he actually condescended to ask me to dance after seeing what I could do. Gee, so I'm finally worthy of his attention! Uh, no thanks. I have plenty of other wonderful partners--both as dancers and as people--to occupy my time. Why would I want to be around people who snubbed me then or snub my best friend now?

Did I mention that my best guy friend Joe, one of the most popular people I've ever met, who gets asked out by girls young enough to be his granddaughter, dances with every newbie he can find?

I can't speak for Dan, but teachers often dance with a lot of newbies to promote and encourage dancing and there is kind of an expectations upon them. especially if you make your living you have acertain obligation i think. And it probably good for business to. But I don't recall the major teachers at workshops I have been to going out of their way to dance with new women unless they are the type to seek out attractive ones. Geneally it was an obligation to dance with anyone who asked, but they never seemed to go out of their way.

When I was part of a scene and knew a lot of people, I alwasy talked and was friendly with anyone who I knew. But as far as asking to dance, I still gravitate towards the better dancers. But still, it is no excuse to be rude or ignore people.

 

[la vie en rose]

I definitely agree with most everything everyone has said. There's nothing better than a great dance with someone who is smiling and clearly happy to be dancing with you! I've been swing dancing for a number of years now, but I always prefer to dance with a beginner who looks like they're having a great time than a hotshot who barely looks at you. I try to be as friendly and inclusive as possible to everyone I meet at a dance - it's all about having fun.

 

[Paisley]

:arated:

If I ever feel I'm too good to ask a newbie to dance, I hope someone will be a good enough friend to tell me I've gotten too big for my breeches.