The Anglo-Irish War (1919-1921) and Irish Civil War

[Story]

Considering the impact the early 20th Century wars in Ireland had on western society, figured some folks here might find this reenactment group I found interesting -
http://www.geocities.com/thirdcorkbrigade/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/thirdcorkbrigade/photos2.html

for the Anglo-Irish War
http://members.tripod.com/~dungarvan/yinde.htm

As opposed to the Civil War
http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/irishcivilwar.html

 

[Edward]

Fascinating, I had no idea that there was a reneactment scene for that period (obviously it would be a whole nother can o' worms where I'm from, in the north!! lol ), though I can see how it would happen given how deep an impact those conflicts had on the birth of what is even today a very young State. I imagine this is probably the closest equivalent there is to a WW2 reenactment scene of any size there is in the Republic, bearing in mind of course that the Long Fella declared the Republic officially neutral in the 1939-45 war. Appropriate that these boys should be based in Cork - big Mick's own county. I wonder whether anyone has recreated Dan Breen's Third Tipperary Brigade of the IRA, which in 1919, as the Dail Eireann met for the first time in Dublin, carried out the unofficial attack (planned and executed at local level only) which effectively commenced the 1919-1921 Anglo-Irish War. Interesting character, Breen. His autobiography, which if memory serves was published in the forties or early fifties, is worth a read. Entitled "My Fight for Irish Freedom", it covers his story from his roots through the 1919-21 war, his role on the Anti-Treaty side in the Civil War, and his subsequent disillusionment with violence. He was later extremely impressed with Ghandi and what he achieved for Indian independence through non-violence.

 

[sweetfrancaise]

This is fascinating--thanks for the info! My mom has been researching this for quite a while now, and I had no idea these reenactments existed.

 

[Dragon Soldier]

Yup, it's all interesting and some of the things that we're seeing now would have been unthinkable just a very short time ago.

I wouldn't say that it's the closest thing to a WWII Re-Enactment scene though... Clicky on the links.

Wartime Living History Association

London Irish Rifles

Battlegroup South

Royal Ulster Rifles

49th Guards, Red Army

Also represented, but with no websites I'm aware of, groups & individuals representing 101st & 82nd Airborne, Fallschrimjaeger, Ulster Home Guard, Royal Air Force, SOE/Jedburghs & Maquis.

 

[PADDY]

Big changes afoot in Northern Ireland.

The times, they are a-changing. Hopefully we can 'all' move forwards as a community and a nation for the betterment and benefit of all without ever regressing to the 'not so long ago' dark days of bombs and bullets.

 

[Edward]

Absolutely, Paddy.... I'd love to see things progress to a situation where everyone of whatever stripe can remember these sorts of things and preserve the history without it being either intended or interpreted by anyone as an aggressive political gesture which sometimes things have been in the past (please note i'm not in any way of the belief that the guys linked to above are maknig any political statement! ).

Dragon - some interesting links there - I had no idea that there was a lot of this sort of thing happening. Definitely changed times - it's not that many years ago since Donna Trainer(?) was temporarily suspended from reading the news on UTV because she refused to follow station policy and wear a poppy. I remember the kerfuffle that caused, what with Remembrance Sunday being politically loaded for many people. The pace of change is certainly slow, but it's all progress. The phenomenon of Irish boys joining the British army has a long, long history - I'm sure it was an act of idealism for some, though for many others it was an escape from poverty, or small town syndrome, a way to see the world.... their stories are important and should be preserved. Oneo f the old boys in my parent's church - used to sit behind us, died a few years ago - was Dublin born and bred, never lost the accent. Signed up to the British forces (the navy, I believe) to fight Hitler. The back of the order of service for his funeral had a photo of him from the war years, stnading somewhere - if memory serves - in Scandinavia - Oslo? - beside a 'liberated' limo that had belonged to some high ranking Wehrmacht officer. Wish I could remember the details.

 

[dhermann1]

I just saw an hour show on Cromwell in Ireland last night on a series called "The Conquerors". I had read a couple of good books on the English Civil Wars, but they only touched on his campaign in Ireland. This show helped clarify a few things. One thing I was aware of, however, was the huge scale of the wars in Ireland BEFORE Cromwell. As many as 800,000 people may have perished during the early 1640's in Ireland. The cumulative effect of these catastrophes is awfully difficult to imagine. Anyone in the last century who has had the courage to try to bring peace to that lovely little island (including Michael Collins and Winston Churchill, and Jerry Adams and Tony Blair, and even (especially?) Ian Paisley) deserves a lot of credit and respect. As an American of partially English extraction, who has plenty of Irish American friends, it has been a sad experience learning the full history of Ireland's troubles.

 

[Edward]

I think yes Paisley has to be given his dues there. I've never cared for the man for various reasons - and this is not the place for politics anyhow - but certainly in finally agreeing to work with Sinn Fein, he has made a big break from the norm within that hardline of Unionism over the years. A siginifcant step for sure. Of course, it's all far from over (I often like to say it's all over bar the shooting - there's Northern Ireland humour for you! ), but the fact is that there's no longer an appetite for violence in either community, and every small advance, however agonising it is to get it happen, is a step where the politicians will find no real will among the people to go back on. What will take generations upon generations to kill off are the ingrained prejudices passed down in both communities. But we will get there.... when you think of the long history of conflict in Ireland, we've come a long, long way in the last half century.

 

[dhermann1]

NOT TO BELABOR THE POINT!!!! But, when people are impoverished, they have little to hold onto but their myths. They have nothing to lose. The tremendous prosperity that is sweeping over Ireland these days must be including the poorer folks of Northern Ireland as well. This is probably responsible for the change as much as anything.
Without getting into a discussion of who's right or wrong, Ian Paisley has always been my image of one of those old 18th and 17th century characters. Strident, dramatic, uncompromising and spectacularly eloquent.
All of which, given that the name of this forum is WW II, is fftopic:

 

[Edward]

NOT TO BELABOR THE POINT!!!! But, when people are impoverished, they have little to hold onto but their myths. They have nothing to lose. The tremendous prosperity that is sweeping over Ireland these days must be including the poorer folks of Northern Ireland as well. This is probably responsible for the change as much as anything.
Without getting into a discussion of who's right or wrong, Ian Paisley has always been my image of one of those old 18th and 17th century characters. Strident, dramatic, uncompromising and spectacularly eloquent.
All of which, given that the name of this forum is WW II, is fftopic:

lol it is indeed. I absolutely agree with you about the poverty issue, though. It's kids growing up on both sides with no prospects, no hope - a friedn grew up in an area where her dad was virtually a celebrity because he had a job. little wonder people in that sort of situation find themselves "a cause"...

 

[Story]

FYI

That recreated Third Cork Brigade is a mid-Atlantic (US) organization.
http://www.geocities.com/thirdcorkbrigade/contactinfo.html
I saw their camp at the 2006 Loudon County (VA) Celtic Fair - lots of wool.

 

[cookie]

The times, they are a-changing. Hopefully we can 'all' move forwards as a community and a nation for the betterment and benefit of all without ever regressing to the 'not so long ago' dark days of bombs and bullets.

Amen to that... it's the Emerald Isle after all.

 

[Badluck Brody]

Very interesting!

Just spent the last couple hours looking over those sites.. And even sent a shout to the group for possible accords and events which might be put into the works.

Thanks for the lead!

Very very interesting!!

 

[Story]

Heads up

An upcoming issue of SHOTGUN NEWS will have an article on the R.I.C. carbine.

 

[KittyT]

To anyone who is interested in the way these centuries-old conflicts have shaped modern life in Northern Ireland, I recommend reading John Conway's "Belfast Diary: War As A Way Of Life". It's an interesting first-hand account of an American living in Catholic West Belfast.

 

[Badluck Brody]

Tried contacting the 3rd Cork Brigade..

.. Just to see if they were still around and to check into possible options to network... I recieved nothing then a reply stating undeliverable...

Unless someone has contact with these folks, I hate to say it. But they might not be at it anymore...???

 

[Story]

Hey Brody!
I'd read your post above and had the same lack of response over a year ago, but stumbled onto their site again and it looks like it's back up.
http://www.geocities.com/thirdcorkbrigade/westcorkinaction.html

From the CONTACT page -
Contact: Bob McDonough
fenian98 at hotmail dot com

 

[Story]

February 4, 2009 Tom Mahon was going through papers in the archives of his alma mater four years ago when he made an astonishing discovery. The papers were the thousands donated by the family of Maurice Twomey, the longest-serving IRA chief of staff (the 10 years from 1926).

The alma mater was University College Dublin, from which Mahon qualified as a medical doctor 25 years ago.

And the discovery was a treasure trove of coded material relating to a crucial moment in the IRA's history, the years 1925-1928.

It casts new light on several subjects, notably the organization's increasing marginalization as the new Fianna Fáil party grew in Ireland; its sale of U.S. and British military secrets to the Soviet Union; its acquisition of information on chemical weapons; and its use of the Kerry football team's 1927 tour of America for fundraising purposes.

http://www.irishecho.com/newspaper/story.cfm?id=19040

 

[Norumbega]

Egad.....that chap has some potato gun!!

 

[David Conwill]

Egad.....that chap has some potato gun!!

Maybe you know this, but that's actually a Lewis Gun, a WWI light machine gun.

-Dave