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Talk to a WWII Vet today!

Windsock

A-List Customer
Messages
339
Location
Australia
I am very fortunate in that over the last 2 years I have been introduced to a number of WWII RAAF Pilots an aircrew. The area where I live is a part of the Country where many had retired to and by word of mouth i've been introduced to one from another.

From my point of view i'm just been honoured to meet them and share some time and listen, and they for the most part have been very happy to sit and talk with someone half their age (much younger than their own kids but older than their grandkids). As an WWII era aviation junkie i've read a lot and collected a lot but these opportunities are giving me the chance to hear their stories first hand. Some of these stories are new to me and although I have been aware of the operations of the Beaufighters of Coastal Command or those of the Sunderland Squadrons ranging the Bay of Biscay I now have an added personal appreciation of what these guys actually did. Every time I see these guys i'm reminded that time's not on their side. I have another one to visit soon, very different from the others as well, he was an air gunner in Liberators and lost two from under him.

Today I had the immense pleasure of meeting one of our last members of the Desert Air Force, a former Kittyhawk Pilot of 3 Sqn RAAF. He's going to be 90 in a couple of weeks and is as sharp as a tack and fit and agile as a guy 20 years younger. I sat talking and listening to him compact about 5 years of history into two hours.

I couldn't help feeling priveleged and I must admit a little unworthy as he rattled off the names of his personal friends and Commanders and others he'd met in captivity (Clive Caldwell and Bobby Gibbes, Paul Brickhill and others) relating personal stories about them from first hand experience. The only words to descibe his relating his personal aerial combats was surreal- he must have relived them many times over but he remembered the dialogue and call signs and the feelings when he downed his ME and especially when he was downed himself 2 weeks later (Maj J Muncheberg). Reading accounts of these events is one thing, but it's simply amazing to watch someone describe first hand the events leading up to being rounded up by 4 109's realizing the inevitable and finally hit with cannon fire below his seat and physically decribe the process of being ripped from his stricken burning Kittyhawk and cracking his knees on the way out. Each section of the discussion was like reading a chapter in a book. After capture by the Italians, straffed by Allies and what he felt would be inevitable release (or being left behind with the withdrawl along the Nth African coast) he was quickly shipped to Europe to wind up in Luft StalagIII for the rest of the War.

As this was '43 he witnessed the real Great Escape (reckons the first bit of the film was ok but most was a load of Hollywood rubbish- if you want to know what it was really like read Geoff Taylors "Piece of Cake"), and survived the final forced march of the entire Camp to northern Germany which he believes was an attempt by Hitler to use them for bargaining- in the end they were all to be shot but fortunately the War ended, not before many occasions again being strafed this time by Typhoons (they couldn't recognize who they were attacking from that distance or speed) and Bomber Command attacks by night. He and a couple of mates finally made it to France first by stolen Merc staff car and other means and finally landed in England on board a Lanc. He said these were being used to ferry home troops and some guys actually flew back in AC from their own squadrons- some even wanted to pilot themselves back- well you would wouldn't you, but being rusty at the controls aparently accounted for one ship being lost in the Channel- so close to home and after all they'd been through.

As I see it hese guys have lived two lives in one, and are living legends. I did the usual thing and took some show and tell- An RAAF service peaked cap, an RAF type B, type D o2 mask and goggles, and one of my Irvins. He slipped on the cap like it was yesterday, instantly at "a rackish angle' and the jacket with a huge smile on his face. He last saw his Irvin (worn only on the ground to fight off the cold desert) the last time he took off to fly. I'm going to see him next week as well and go over his old shots. after the war he used to wear his own officers peacked cap driving his tractor on the farm, and the 1936 pattern boots which he wore from his flying days, and protected him through the stalags winters and march were burnt with most of his posessions (not his pictures) when his farm was burnt in a bushfire.

If you can, visit a Vet today, they are amazing!!!

Below is some of the work by Robert Taylor depicting the work of the relevant Squadrons.

Caught20on20the20Surface.jpg


Strikeandstrikeagain.jpg


DesertHawks.jpg



Anyone else have any encounters to relate?
 

Smithy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,139
Location
Norway
Many thanks for relating that Andrew, thoroughly enjoyed it.

I'll write up a post here of some of the things from that former 485 Spit pilot I know. He had some very hairy experiences and I know that you'd enjoy them.

As well as that I can post some stories of my great uncles' experiences, 2 were prisoners of the Japanese, another fought in North Africa, Italy and won the DSO. I find what they went through fascinating but then I'm biased as they were family!
 

ethanedwards

One of the Regulars
Messages
254
Location
England
Veterans

Please post these Tim, it's wrong that they should be lost. I've only shaken hands with BoB pilots at the signings they do at Duxford, it's always too busy to stop and chat. It's frightening how quickly things get lost though - a few years ago I worked with the grandson of Tom Gleave. It came out in conversation one day that his grandad had been a pilot in the war, who had
been burned. Other than this, he knew nothing. I realise that many veterans must have found it impossible to relate to civilians when it was all over and in general folk must have wanted to put it behind them and move on. For us it's fascinating history but people of that generation must have witnessed the worst - but also the best - that humanity has to offer.
I think it's great Andrew that you have been able to meet with these men and thanks for posting, I hope a few of them know that there are people out here who appreciate what they did. I've posted a logbook shot from a Lanc F/E who shows the trips they did to collect POW's. I included the entry about the 262 because I can't imagine what drama must have been going on in that aeroplane, yet it's so tersely recorded.(Has anyone read Gibson's entry for that night in May 43 - a masterclass in understatement!) E.E.
logbook.jpg
 

Twitch

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,133
Location
City of the Angels
If you don't record these sessions they'll be lost to time and bad memory. I've interviewed lots of pilots and others for articles but a recorder is a must. I'm not kidding, do it! These guys don't mind talking about their experiences repeatedly. Take advantage!
 

ukali1066

Practically Family
Messages
514
Location
West Yorkshire
Amazing men...we can never repay them...

To me the dogfighting of that era was true skill and heroism, I'm sure modern pilots with all their gadgetry would agree with me...

I also found this touching when I read it online...

The 275 victory Luftwaffe ace, G?ºnther Rall, visited Finland in June 2003 and gave lectures about his career during the war and during the post war years in NATO. 85 year old Mr. Rall was healthy and with a mind sharp as a razorblade...

When asked "what has been the best moment in your life" Mr. Rall answered simply:

"When I married my wife."
 

Windsock

A-List Customer
Messages
339
Location
Australia
ethanedwards said:
Please post these Tim, it's wrong that they should be lost. I've only shaken hands with BoB pilots at the signings they do at Duxford, it's always too busy to stop and chat. It's frightening how quickly things get lost though - a few years ago I worked with the grandson of Tom Gleave. It came out in conversation one day that his grandad had been a pilot in the war, who had
been burned. Other than this, he knew nothing. I realise that many veterans must have found it impossible to relate to civilians when it was all over and in general folk must have wanted to put it behind them and move on. For us it's fascinating history but people of that generation must have witnessed the worst - but also the best - that humanity has to offer.
I think it's great Andrew that you have been able to meet with these men and thanks for posting, I hope a few of them know that there are people out here who appreciate what they did. I've posted a logbook shot from a Lanc F/E who shows the trips they did to collect POW's. I included the entry about the 262 because I can't imagine what drama must have been going on in that aeroplane, yet it's so tersely recorded.(Has anyone read Gibson's entry for that night in May 43 - a masterclass in understatement!) E.E.
logbook.jpg

Thanks very much for posting the log book Ethan, isn't that interesting and there might just be a bit of sychronicity going on. The third entry down refers to collecting POW's on VE day. I may well have had the departure location wrong and thoinking about it he probably did mention Belgium, but he did say that he arrived back in the UK on VE day. I'll run it past him though i'm sure there were a lot of AC coming and going. He'd love to see this i'm sure.

He and the other guys did say that they were interviewed by Officials (probably from Veterans Affairs, the Archives or Aust War Memorial) - about 5 hours each so i'm sure it's all recorded.

Smithy, that's a lot of impressive family history you have there and i'd love to see some of it. Please try to find the time to post it. Also, since you're offering I will send you a couple of other serials and names to look up as well if you don't mind....
 

Smithy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,139
Location
Norway
OK guys as some seem interested, I thought I'd relate some of my family's experiences from the war. I'll split these up into a couple of posts...

One of my great uncles, Robert was fighting in the British Army and was captured at the fall of Singapore. He was subsequently interred by the Japanese and put to work on the Burma Road for a couple of years. He had a pretty rough time and contracted severe dysentery, and as the Japanese did with a lot of useless workers he was basically left to die where he fell. Luckily an Aussie prisoner was in the same boat and, even more luckily this chap was a doctor. They nursed each other and made their way through the jungle avoiding numerous amounts of Japanese and made it back to allied lines in Burma. We've tried to get him to write his experiences down as it's an incredible story, but he's a very modest man and to be honest he doesn't like talking about it much. He's still alive and living in Kent and to this day he won't have anything made in Japan on his property.

When I first met him he had come out to NZ to see family and came round to our place for lunch. I still remember my mother having to be careful what she put on the table as he will eat everything that is laid out on it (a whole block of butter, a whole jar of chutney, etc) as he cannot bear to see food wasted from his wartime experiences of having so little. His back is also covered in scars from the rough treatment and from numerous cigarette burns, where it was almost standard procedure for guards to stub their smokes out on the nearest prisoner. Amazingly despite what he went through (or perhaps because of it) he is an very quiet and gentle man.
 

Twitch

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,133
Location
City of the Angels
I've had a few discussions with Rall over the years. As you state, he appears to be ready and able to drop into a BF 109 cockpit today and kick ass!
 

ethanedwards

One of the Regulars
Messages
254
Location
England
Veterans

Well told Tim - a devastating story, it's impossible not to feel humbled, especially when I consider the things I find to gripe about.............
 

Windsock

A-List Customer
Messages
339
Location
Australia
Thanks for post no.1 Tim, it is hard to imagine that they could ever recover from such harsh treatment, especially maintaining a level and healthy mental state. Looking forward to future instalments.

Ethan, I sent my friend your copy of the log book, he was amazed that you had a copy and that I had produced it so quickly- just lucky I guess. He confirmed that the 8th May was the day, 156 sqn did perform his lift, he did leave from Belgium and land at wing, but he did not know the name of the Pilot- he said that the bomber boys with him were doing all the talking- it's as though he was relating a story that happened last year... so thanks very much for finding this. Do you collect log books?

Here's a shot I found in "Round the clock".

RetPOW.jpg


He said when he was getting out he was greeted by a WAAF who offered to help him, it struck him that these were the first kind words that had been spoken to him since the day of his capture.
 

ethanedwards

One of the Regulars
Messages
254
Location
England
Log Books

Hi Andrew, thanks for passing that on, I'm pleased it was well received! I did
collect log books for a while during the 80's. They were always difficult to find and also quite expensive when you did, usually £200+ back then - no idea
what the average rate would be now. Regrettably (and predictably!) I've since sold them, except 2 - I kept the first one I bought out of sentiment, and also the one you saw because this chap flew through all the Berlin raids with a stoicism that brings a lump to my throat.
I used to go to a hall at the Angel, North London, most Saturdays where there were dozens of dealers selling all kinds of military kit - Irvin jackets included on occasion. I don't know if it's still there. I also used to buy excellent documents, log books, helmets etc. from Michael Young of Kirby Muxloe although this too is many years ago, I don't know if he's still in business.
I love the photo you posted, they look so purposeful - probably just caught sight of some of those WAAFS.............
E.E.
 

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