Someone knowledgeable on WWII Era hats?

[2000hpbob]

Hello, I recently was going through some of my fathers old things (he was a collector) and found some antique fedoras. I have an appreciation for the things he collected i just know very little about them so I figured I would seek knowledge from people who know more about the subject. My father was a colonel in the military during world war II these hats were most likely purchased for his civilian outfits somewhere overseas (although there is a Dobbs hat marked "made in the USA") and my father had very expensive taste so i would imagine these would be worth a bit of money. Im not looking to sell them at this time just trying to gather information about them(although if you would happen to know the value of one of them i would be curious). Heres my best visual descriptions for the hats. The first hat is a Dobbs hat it is black size 7 1/4 marked made in the USA, in the center it reads "Dobbs FIFTH AVENUE new york" and on the side it had a marking that is in cursive the first word is famous the second word starts with a B. The second hat is a "BEAVER HATS" and the marking on the side are "Pure Beaver Quality" with a emblem "Centredent" and "Custom made 7". The third hat is beige and reads in the center" MARQUE GRAND LUXE Borsaline grand prix paris 1900 Antica Casa Fondata nel 1857" The size is 5 and the side readings are "XXXXX" "Fabbricato per Giuseppe Marino". The fourth had as a soft easily bendable black hat marked in the center "KNOX new york" the side markings are "OVALIZED SIXTEENTHS TRADEMARK" "KNOX John T. Shayne&CO. CHICAGO and "F.T.W." which were his initials. Also there is a bow-tie in the collection with the markings "BROOKS BROTHERS MAKERS ALL SILK WOVEN IN ENGLAND". If anyone could provide some information about these it would be greatly appreciated. Thank You, Robert.

Heres the link to pictures: http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x390/2000hpbob/?start=all

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

here are some of the images.

 

[Brad Bowers]

The Dobbs is a more modern hat, '70s-'90s, bought at a Famous-Barr department store. The Knox is older, looks to be 1940s.

Brad

 

[randooch]

200hpbob, do these hats fit you by any chance?

 

[MDphoto]

Nice color on that Borsalino

 

[alanfgag]

The Marque Grand Luxe might be late 40's - more likely 1950's. If you do a google search for the hat manufacturer with the words "fedora lounge" in the search field you will find the many dedicated threads to these manufacturers and hat models. There is a wealth of knowledge contained in the archives here.

... and welcome!

 

[2000hpbob]

No these hats don't happen to fit me unfortunately I have a much larger head. And thank you all for the information very helpful! Out of curiosity would anyone know the value of any of these because I haven't the faintest clue. All other information is greatly appreciated, thank you , Bob.

 

[2000hpbob]

I don't want to let this thread die, if anyone had more information, price, history, place of purchase it would be greatly appreciated. Or even the names of the hats so i could do some google searches because when i type in Dobbs etc none of the hats resemble mine. Thanks

 

[Brad Bowers]

I don't want to let this thread die, if anyone had more information, price, history, place of purchase it would be greatly appreciated. Or even the names of the hats so i could do some google searches because when i type in Dobbs etc none of the hats resemble mine. Thanks

Well, I mentioned the Dobbs' age above. It was manufactured in Garland, TX, and was purchased at a Famous-Barr department store, presumably wherever your father lived in the '70s or '80s. You may find more information on label underneath the sweatband, but be careful of deterioration if the leather sweatband is really dry. It would have sold for $25 to perhaps $80 or so back then, at a guess, and depending on the year. Most hat models did NOT have the names printed on them anywhere, with a few notable exceptions that gained fame in their lifetime. The Dobbs, however, might be their Jet 707 model, probably the most common model between the '70s and today.

I just noticed the Knox has the Ovalized Sixteenth trademarked, which puts it most likely after 1950, when Knox received the trademark, even though they had been using it since 1933. They didn't file on it until 1947. It was manufactured in Norwalk, CT, and purchased at the store of John T. Shayne & Co. in Chicago, as marked on the sweatband. It could have originally sold for $15 up to perhaps $25. It reminds me a bit of the Knox Windjammer, which was a lightweight hat made by Knox around the late '40s to early '50s. Does it have a "ribbon" or hat band made of the same felt as the rest of the hat?

Brad

 

[HatsEnough]

I also felt they were not of WWII era.

 

[2000hpbob]

Brad: Yes, the Knox does had a hat band going around it although it is small and the exact same color as the hat. Also have hats gone up in value since they were purchased i would assume so but i have no knowledge, as i said previously I'm not really interested in selling them but I have them for display in my store and if someone comes in and offers $300 for one of them i don't want to be clueless on the price . So if you had any rough estimates on the current prices that would be greatly appreciated. And your knowledge on dates and where they were purchased is incredibly helpful.
HatsEnough: Thats very possible i was just taking a shot in the dark with the era hoping someone would recognize them. Would you say they are post WWII?

 

[HatsEnough]

Yes, they are post WWII.

As to "worth," I would put a good price tag on that Borsolino because it is a 100% beaver hat. I would expect that one to reach near $250 or more on ebay. The Dobbs, though, you'd be lucky to get $20.

 

[alanfgag]

Y...as to "worth," I would put a good price tag on that Borsolino because it is a 100% beaver hat. I would expect that one to reach near $250 or more on ebay.

I don't think the fur content is shown anywhere on the Borsalino Marque Grand Luxe. What they sell for depends on many factors, mostly the quality of the auction listing and who the watchers are. I paid over $100, I believe, for the two I bought last year in excellent condition. These two (1, 2) sold recently for half that. One is the top of the line 6X, the other a 5X.

Perhaps summer is the wrong time to sell a velour hat?

 

[HatsEnough]

Alan, I think you are right about Summer being a bad time to sell fur felt fedoras. I see prices all over the place on fur felt in the summer. Sometimes high, sometimes low. In the winter they seem more steady. At least thatis how I am seeing it. I may just be fooling myself!?

 

[2000hpbob]

Im slightly confused on the beaver fur subject , the hat that is Borsolino is a tan color and i don't see any markings that say beaver fur on it (are all Borsolino's beaver fur?) although I do have a hat that in the center says "Beaver Hats" and pure quality beaver on the side do that one is clearly beaver so are both of them beaver or would my pictures just be misleading (there are more pictures on the link), also it helps greatly to know the aprox prices so thank you for your estimates. Out of curiosity though why would the Dobbs be so "cheap" considering it has the box? Also from and educated eye i was wondering what you would say the condition on these hats would be, the tops of some of them have become soft but can that be fixed by someone who knows what their doing? And since you have me intrigued with the prices what would you value the Knox and other beaver hat at? Your knowledge is greatly appreciated.

 

[HatsEnough]

That's the one I meant. Sorry for the confusion. As to them being "soft" they are supposed to be. You don't want good quality fedoras to be stiff like cowboy hats.

The Dobbs is cheap because it is not very old and it is a short brim. Short brims do not sell as well as wider brims. Borsalinos go for good $$ most of the time. Dobbs not so much.

If the one that says "One Hundred" is really 100% Beaver it might go for OK money. It's hard to say.

Right off the only one you have that might get a few dollars is the Borso. I'd say the Dobbs will be hard to sell but the Beaver and Knox Hats one might sell OK.

At least, this is my experience with ebay sales.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Hats are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them, and there are a lot of variables involved, of course. Age and condition are the two most common attributes, but brand, style/model, and size are bigger determinants for higher prices. You said the Dobbs was 7 1/4, which isn't small, but it's also not among the larger-sized hats that command big prices. It would fetch more than a 7 1/8, generally, but perhaps not as much as a 7 3/8 or 7 1/2. It's a fairly common style for Dobbs, particularly for that age, so not as rare. If, for instance, you posted it on eBay with a Buy-It-Now price of $29.99, you might find someone to purchase it. A regular auction might even go over that price a little bit, but it's hard to say for certain.

The Knox is a much more likely candidate for a higher price. It's older, and a more casual style than what's usually out there for hats of that age. I don't know the demand for that style, but it is less common. I could see it fetching perhaps $60, maybe more.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about eBay value. Retail value in a store is another matter entirely, and something that I can't really judge.

Brad

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes, they are post WWII.

As to "worth," I would put a good price tag on that Borsolino because it is a 100% beaver hat. I would expect that one to reach near $250 or more on ebay. The Dobbs, though, you'd be lucky to get $20.

European Velours are / were made of a mix of hare and rabbit felt. In the past there might be a touch of nutria or beaver added for durability. Beaver is expensive but not the end all be all when it comes to producing fine finishes.

 

[danofarlington]

Yes, they are post WWII.

As to "worth," I would put a good price tag on that Borsolino because it is a 100% beaver hat. I would expect that one to reach near $250 or more on ebay. The Dobbs, though, you'd be lucky to get $20.

Eyeballing it, I agree with the $200-300 level for the Borsalino, maybe more on a crazy day if you ignite a feeding frenzy and market it right--sell the beaver aspect of it. On the other, I am not so pessimistic--up to $100 or $150 would be my expectation as a ceiling, although it could drop down lower.

 

[mayserwegener]

The Borsalino is not a beaver felt hat. See my post above.