Shirt collar oddities - Boardwalk Empire Shirt Collars

[Matt Deckard]

Here is a historical question. Has anyone before seen a collar like the ones made for Steve Buscemi as Nucky Thompson in Boardwalk Empire?

In particular I want to point out the cut out on either side of the collar that is there for the knot to go through.

 

[Shangas]

Isn't that just a club-collar held together with a collar-bar? That's what it looks like to me, at least. The ties are very interesting.

 

[Nick D]

Even without the tie cutout, it's closer to a double-round than a club collar.

I have seen this particular type a couple times, in old collar displays and advertisements. David Page Coffin also illustrates this type in his book on shirtmaking in a section on the early history of the modern shirt collar.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Isn't that just a club-collar held together with a collar-bar? That's what it looks like to me, at least. The ties are very interesting.

You can see in the show when he takes off or puts on a tie that it's got the cutouts.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

I just looked at some Leyendecker pictures but I couldn't find one with the cutouts. I also wondered about the collar some time ago.

 

[Cobden]

Can't admit to have ever seen, but it strikes me as such a bizarre thing that I can't imagine the cotumiers just made it up without some basis

 

[Matt Deckard]

Can't admit to have ever seen, but it strikes me as such a bizarre thing that I can't imagine the cotumiers just made it up without some basis

I think that's exactly what a good costumer at times should do. It's a way of putting a signature on a look. Look at the dimensional brim of the Indiana Jones fedora. Hand cut at Herbert Johnson with a wobbly brim.

 

[Cobden]

I think that's exactly what a good costumer at times should do. It's a way of putting a signature on a look. Look at the dimensional brim of the Indiana Jones fedora. Hand cut at Herbert Johnson with a wobbly brim.

I understand your point, but this strikes me as too obvious a thing. That said, you could well be correct.

Having not seen the tv series, one question I feel I should ask is if it is an attached collar? I can see the possible need for the notches on a heavily starched attached collar (though I have not come across, though this could be due to my lack of focus on American collars), though I can't see such an item being sold "off the peg" due to the number of variables that would render such detailing counterproductive - for example, wearing a fatter tie, using any knot other then the four in hand, and even tying the four in hand in the opposite direction (I know I never really pay much attention to which direction I tie my tie) would render the peculiar shaping pointless

 

[Woodfluter]

Honestly cannot say for certain, and don't have the time to research it right now, but believe I've seen ads for notched separate stiff collars from the early 20th century, probably no later than early 1920s. Again, just fallible recollection. But the Buscemi's character's collar looks familiar in that context.

 

[Chasseur]

It seems they specifically picked this collar just for the Nucky. In the words of costume designer John Dunn:

Nucky wears a collar bar. The collars actually needed controlling back then, so the collar bar was very popular. We did have a particular collar specifically designed for Nucky, though: a period collar that has a little keyhole cutout in the center — when you close the collar with the collar bar, there was then a little hole that the necktie would come out of. No one else was allowed to wear that.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/mens-fashion/boardwalk-empire-costume-designer-091510

 

[Matt Deckard]

Awesome find Chausseur! Thank you!

 

[Chasseur]

Most welcome Matt, anytime!

 

[Dinerman]

The style was introduced in 1903 as the "Tyfold", made by Cluett Peabody and Co. They proved hugely unpopular on the American market, and remaining stock was shipped to England in 1906, where they were sold at 30 cents a dozen, about a third of their original manufactured price.

I'm trying to find any examples produced after that initial 1903-1904 run, but not having any luck.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Quite the great find. Hadn't seen anything of them outside of Boardwalk Empire until this. Good to see that Fedora Lounge is the best historical clothing research center on the web!

Thank you Dinerman!

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Nice find, Dinerman. Thanks for sharing. I found another "odd" collar in a book about italian fashion. Some kind of button down/ tab collar basterd.

 

[Fletch]

What's the dope on those Goodfellas type collars with no tie gap? Was that a real mob thing once?

 

[Matt Deckard]

Quite the lobster claw.

 

[Metatron]

What's the dope on those Goodfellas type collars with no tie gap? Was that a real mob thing once?

That looks a bit silly... Though I might not have noticed if he was actually pointing those two guns at me.

 

[herringbonekid]

Fletch, you see those gapless collars in teens-early 20s catalogues, though not as long pointed.
i would guess the ones in the film were a 70s throw-back to those early styles.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Ugh, I just don't like the claw look.