Shelf Purchase or Custom?

[MadDawg]

I love reading all the posts about everybodies hats and being new to the fedora world...thought it would be interesting to get some feedback about this topic.

Excluding emotional response and sticking to, at a minimum, semi-factual information, what are the primary differences of purchasing a custom made hat vs a new hat off the shelf? For arguements sake let's compare the following production brands...

1. An Akubra Federation IV ($150)

2. A Borsalino ($200)

verses the following Custom Made Brands...

1. Art Fawcett ($300)

2. Adventurebuilt ($400)

Giving a little credit to the "I have a custom hat" response, and removing it from this conversation, what makes up the $100-250 difference? Is it quality (has this been proven?), man-hours, or just uniqueness and rarity?

Allow me to word it differently...what is it that is going to be worth me doubling my price for a custom made hat?

 

[Brent Hutto]

I'm a newcomer like yourself and my advice would be to order a custom hat as soon as:

a) you know exactly what you want and
b) you know you can't find it off the shelf

Personally, I'm a long way from "a" and therefore I have no idea at all about "b". Waiting a few months for a $400 hat to arrive and then figuring out a week later that what I really wanted was something with less brim and a bit of taper to it would be brutal.

Another advantage to off the shelf hats is that, heaven forbid, if something happened to the hat it sure would be nice to call up a shop and have a replacement a week later for $100-some.

But you've got to balance that against the indisputable quality of something like an all-beaver Hat of Art. Tough call if you have the money burning a hole in your pocket, I'll admit.

 

[gtdean48]

The 2 customs you listed are 100% beaver which is different than the rabbit felt of an Akubra or Borsalino. A beaver blank that Art starts with is over $100. The craftsmanship added easily makes up the value of the $200+, the liner, the sweat, the bow treatment, the finish. Holding my Art in one hand & any Akubra & Borsalino I own, the difference is totally obvious. The only thing that compares is the vintage Borsalino I have. I have a 100% beaver custom from Buckaroo Hatters that is far above any Akubra I have & I have 9.
The fit & finish of a custom plus the beaver felt easily justifies the added costs. JMHO
The Akubras are good, durable hats. I wear one daily. If I liked the style of a Fed4, I'd get one in Heritage. That difference is worth it to me because I would pay that to get a Campdraft in Heritage if they'd offer it!
If I could only have 1 hat, it'd be a custom, 100% beaver hat that I know will last me a lifetime & can be refurbed again & again.
If I had to have only 2 hats, I'd have 1 custom & 1 Akubra.
Since I don't, I have way too many!!!!

 

[jlee562]

Well, a custom made hat is custom fit to your head, that's a nice benefit. The quality of the felt is most likely to be superior with a custom made hat.

Speaking specifically to Adventurebilt (I don't own one....yet, I'm on the list), beside he provenance of having a hat from the guy who made the Indy IV hat, you're going to get a hat to last you a lifetime. It's my understanding that all the ABs survived the filming in such great shape that it was remarked that they had enough hats for the next film. And those hats saw a lot of wear and tear thrown at them.

And oh, Adventurebilt had a recent price increase, so they're now $650.

 

[kaosharper1]

Customs do have better workmanship and materials. If you have an usually shaped head, they will also fit better.

I have Akubras, Art Fawcetts and Optimos. For the hatbands on the customs, for instance, you will never see thread tacks holding the ribbons on as an example of better workmanship. Also, being 100% beaver, as discussed above, they will last longer and can be easily restored.

Head shape is something else. I have a "round oval" head so I can never find production hats that fit me 100% correctly. My Art Fawcett hats do, and they don't blow off even in a stiff wind.

 

[Andykev]

Store bought vs. custom

I can attest that the custom is the ONLY way to go. Really think for a moment. You buy a "store bought" hat....and pay the $150-$200. It will be a nice hat. The heavier felts like Akubra will hold up well outdoors. The "dress weight" hats like a modern Stetson are nice also, but they are less durable in rain, etc. I know this.

The modern store bought tend to have poorer mass produced quality and materials (not bad, just poorer quality). Compare a pair of generic men's shoes and a pair of beautiful imported Italian dress shoes. Or the quality suits at Nordies vs. JC Penney.

Now, I have bought 15 hats from Optimo, and about 7 from Art (not counting the vintage when he had those).

You get a far better hat from Art. Plus, IMHO, you can get a taller crown a la 1930-1940's look. The modern hats just seem to have low, tapered crowns as a general rule.

Art's custom (or any other good hatter here on the Lounge) can select the color, trim, ribbon, SIZE/SHAPE to fit YOU.

I have three of Art's custom hats now. WOW..they are the closest to the vintage quality from my collection that you can no longer find.

My vintage are spectacular (about half of them are very high end) to include two "SILVER BEAVER 50" hats from the 40's which are hands down the tightest and best felt I have ever seen. (You are not going to find a hat body like these ever again).

I suggest the $100 bucks more for a custom is MONEY WELL SPENT. Plus, you have a 100% guarantee with your custom hatter, who wants YOU to be happy...and you are paying the craftsman hatter, the artist, for his talent..and he knows word of mouth and pride comes from having the best product out there.

If you were going to buy your first hat, don't make the mistake I did...buy cheap (didn't know any better), there was no Lounge, there was no Ebay, and the only vintage hats found were at antique stores or the Goodwill or Salvation Army.

This was a long winded post...but I have 60 hats in my collection, and have sold 15-20 more (I dumped the Biltmore and Stetson cheapies). Why? Because when you put on a custom, quality hat, the others are like junk.

 

[Mulceber]

Kev, I think you just nailed it.:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap -M

 

[Greyfox]

As this is only my second post it is obvious that I am no expert when it comes to fedoras. I have spent an incredible amount of time the last several days reading and viewing photos of the hats here. I have been on etailers sites looking at the different options and in my first post here asked for some guidance regarding what to buy. After a great deal of consideration I placed an order with Art at VS for several reasons:

-His hats garner very high praise from all that have them
-Going through the process will teach me a little more about fedoras
-I have a great appreciation for a craftsman that does quality work and the opportunity to work one on one with the craftsman to create something is a great experience.
-This will be my only "dress" hat for a while to go with a few Stetsons and Akubras. I want a quality one.
-Given my limited knowledge buying from a website would be somewhat of a crap shoot and I would probably end up spending more money in the long run on several hats that didn't please me left to sit in the closet.

Everyone's circumstances are different. For me this is a discretionary purchase and I want all the bang for the buck that I can get out of it. For me that ended up being custom. YMMV.

 

[Andykev]

Now you in for it!

.... After a great deal of consideration I placed an order with Art at VS ......

This will be my only "dress" hat for a while to go with a few Stetsons and Akubras. I want a quality one.....I want all the bang for the buck that I can get out of it...)

Congratulations on the wise decision. I have a New Years prediction:

1 - you will pat yourself on the back
2 - your friends and associates will envy you
3 - you will contract a sickness which is an incurable "hat fever"

lol

 

[Mulceber]

Show us the results when you get them, Greyfox. -M

 

[Dewhurst]

For me the primary difference between custom and "production" hats has always been this:

In a Custom hat, you can get exactly what you want by asking for it. In a "production" hat, you can only get exactly what you want if someone is already making it.

There can be quality differences, but most of the manufacturers make at least a couple hats that are world class quality. Customs can be good if you have a strange head shape or size.

 

[daizawaguy]

Giving a little credit to the "I have a custom hat" response, and removing it from this conversation, what makes up the $100-250 difference?

100-250 difference for a custom....!? this is a no brainer.

400-500 difference....well, now this is a good question. But you seem to have been convinced...:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Matt Deckard]

Andykev said it best. If you want a specific hat and style there is no doubt that Art is the best at the high crowns. I saw another one of his last week. The bow treatment. The liner instalation. The sweat band instalation. Bound edge stitching. All top drawer. The felt is smooth and well finished. And he has the eye when is comes to shaping hats.

It's a higher quality felt and you get exactly what you want. That's the difference between the custom and the off the shelf.

 

[M6Classic]

Some people will but a Patek Phillipe even though an electronic Casio is just as...if not more...accurate, at least until the battery dies. We each know which we are and why.

Buzz

 

[Matt Deckard]

Some people will but a Patek Phillipe even though an electronic Casio is just as...if not more...accurate, at least until the battery dies. We each know which we are and why.

Buzz

That's comparing two off the shelves.

 

[daizawaguy]

That's comparing two off the shelves.

In watch world...surely not? Or do you mean that there are NO custom watches...that`s true, right?

 

[M6Classic]

That's comparing two off the shelves.

Okay then...

Some people will buy a pair of custom Longmire cufflinks even though a set of gold-tone Swanks will just as...if not more...easilly close one's cuffs, at least until the swivel pops loose. We each know which we are and why.

Buzz

 

[Matt Deckard]

It's not that simple. That's still comparing jewelry... I'm talking quality -- not luxury.

If it's made off the rack already, great. But the ability to dictate what you want from a hatter that is skilled enough to create what you want is the benefit of custom made. With the examples given, going custom would also provide a longer wearing hat because of much better elements used in the making of the product.

 

[M6Classic]

It's not that simple. That's still comparing jewelry... I'm talking quality -- not luxury.

If it's made off the rack already, great. But the ability to dictate what you want from a hatter that is skilled enough to create what you want is the benefit of custom made. With the examples given, going custom would also provide a longer wearing hat because of much better elements used in the making of the product.

I am not sure I see your point, but I am in fact pretty dense. :eusa_doh:

I submit for your consideration that the exact same is true of custom jewelry as custom hats as custom shoes & cetera.

Buzz

 

[Richard Warren]

One issue that arises when acquiring an object that is no longer in general currency (or at least in decline relative to the past) is that of authenticity. That is to say, is the object a "real'' item of its kind, or a reproduction, simulacrum, or outright fake. For example, if you think (as I do) that a "real" cowboy boot has to have wooden pegs, steel shank, and three quarter welt, you can get a custom pair, or you can get a mass produced yet "hand made " pair, but chances are if you go to a store most of the boots you see will not be "real."

So, one question I would ask those more knowledgeable than myself is whether there is some element (or group of elements) of construction that might reasonably be said to distinguish "real" hats from "hat-like objects."