Sandpaper or Emery Paper?

[DRB]

For achieving optimum smoothness in the finished hat I have read two different things.

"The Cowboy Hat Book" by Rand says to use sandpaper.
"Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating" dated 1868, says use emery paper.

I have watched a video from Rand of them using an ordinary small electric sander for finishing. Perhaps they finished off without electric, but it was not implied.
This seems puzzling to me. I thought that when finishing, you were only supposed to use sand/emery paper in one direction (counter-clockwise). The electric sander on the video did not look like it was going in one direction like a belt sander would.

We humans use emery for filing nails, not sandpaper.

So, what say ye? Sandpaper or emery?

 

[gtdean48]

I've use regular old sandpaper in pouncing my Akubra Campdrafts, bought at helpful hardware place, Ace Hardware... HTH

 

[red71veloce]

This is an interesting topic. What grit is used in this process? Do you only use one grit, or more than one?

 

[zetwal]

I see that nobody has replied yet. PM borrowjh. He has researched this topic and experimented. I'm sure he will be happy share what he has learned.

 

[red71veloce]

Thanks.....I will!

 

[Aureliano]

I use regular sand paper of a medium to soft grit.

 

[gtdean48]

I use medium, fine & then super fine....

 

[randooch]

I use whatever grit sands to a finish that matches the felt. Some are smoother than others, so you need to compensate. On a recent touch-up of a 4X western, I went with 150 grit, but that'd noticeably roughen up a finer felt.

 

[barrowjh]

My inbox contains no PMs, but I saw this and had to throw in my comments. A note of warning - Mike Moore warned me against 'over-sanding' hats, and his advice is true - easy to overdo it.

I ordered a series of grits over the internet, some 400, some 800, 1000, 1200, and 1500 grit, 3M, wet-or-dry. I think Winchester Hat Factory stated they use 400 grit on hat blanks they sand before shipping, but I am uncertain about whether or not they sand all of their production, I got the impression that was an exception rather than the rule, but I could be wrong. In any event, this was not intended as a 'final' sanding; the hatter still has to finish the job.

For some vintage hats the felt is in such good condition that no sanding is indicated. For quite a few, there seem to be 'dead' spots in the felt, where a legacy 'spot' is slightly unfelting relative to the surrounding felt. This spot will reflect light differently, so it looks darker, so I decide it needs sanding. Work the crown steamed out to 'open' and carefully get the crease lines to disappear (well, as good as possible). Depending on the condition of the felt, I might start out with a 800 grit, but typically I use the 1500 or 1200. I'll work that dead spot with 2 or 3 passes with the sandpaper (always sand in direction of the nap!), and then do a very light pass over all of the felt, being careful not to sand the ribbon or the sweatband (or a brim bind). Also be careful with the crease lines, and especially the front 'point' if it was sharply creased before - very light over these. For situations where you over-sand just a bit (the felt will look lighter, because it is reflecting more light relative to surrounding felt), use of a 'lure' to lightly restore oil to the felt will often feather it out.

Bottom line - its an experiment. I wish I knew the progession of grits that Hatco uses, for instance, because I have no idea if the grits I am using are right, but they make some logical sense (to me) - the very high grits do not take off much felt, and therefore just help to even out the 'look' of the felt in some situations where that might be needed. This only applies to hats that were a regular smooth-sanded finish originally, not for 'kitten finish' or other fuzzy finishes. I cut the sandpaper into small pieces, maybe 2x2 inches, and sand with my thumb - no way will this result in an even sand job (as compared to machine-sanding) for that reason - but if you can improve the felt to sand out a dead spot, well that may be improvement enough.

 

[DRB]

Thank you Sir! That is an excellent answer. So, as I understand it, sand paper is the way to go. I know it is less expensive too. The only reason I asked is because on page 53 of Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating it states: "On a fine hat emery paper 7-0 to 8-0 should be used.....". But this in information from the year 1868.

I appreciate your effort to explain this. It has been very informative! .......Dennis

 

[DRB]

barrowjh: there should have been a PM in your inbox. Maybe it is full? hmmmmm

 

[barrowjh]

No PM there, and I only have 3 total messages stored, not sure what's up with that. Take the advice for what it is worth (very little!) - my first sanding experiment was on a full-weight cowboy hat that was so abused that the entire outer surface of the felt was basically 'dead' and I was able to improve it up to 'beater' level, hardly a major accomplishment - there is always a fair likilihood that sanding by hand (by amateur) will do more harm than good. Best results have come from restraining myself - less is more. I found that I enjoy working (playing?) with the felt as much as wearing the hats, so now I look for excuses to 'gift' a hat to distant relatives, just so I have some reason to bid on ebay, and eventually some felt to work (play?) with.

So far, I have only had to throw away one hat, and that was more due to the original condition of the hat than to my 'work' - sometimes a stain spot is just a hat killer, especially if that spot is right at the front crease-spot, the felt is just too weak to take a cleaning effort.

 

[DRB]

barrowjh: what do you use for the big jobs? You said that sanding by hand is difficult. Do you use a small belt sander?

 

[barrowjh]

big jobs? hmm - I have some sanding blocs for regular sandpaper that I have used with the high-grits when sanding on a large target - like a full 4 inch cowboy hat brim, as it was less stressful on my thumb and I did not have to worry about hitting a bound edge (no bound edge). Otherwise, always done by hand with smaller squares that are easily manuevered.

 

[barrowjh]

I furthered my education with this past weekend's visit to Major Moore's Buckaroo Hatters, so I need to bump this and make corrections. I had previously indicated that I start with 400 grit and move to progressively higher (finer) grit when taking off some 'dead' felt on vintage hats. In the shop, working with hat bodies, 120 grit was the starting point. Mike advised that the finest grits may do more harm than good, causing 'hot spots' - no danger if you are careful not to sand very much with the higher grit, but it is a risk. In the future I will likely experiment with a coarser grit (200-300 range) initially and just lightly pounce a vintage hat, maybe up to 800 grit for a final pass.

 

[jimmytbk]

hi guys, what does everyone use for sanding, machines or by hand??

 

[Art Fawcett]

sometimes both, depending on the circumstances Jimmytbk, but you can't go wrong sanding by hand. Sometimes machines can get away from you and do more damage than you can repair. ( from experience)

 

[jimmytbk]

hahahah i bet, what is the machine called that is like a bench spinner type thing??

 

[Art Fawcett]

The spinner is easy, preferred in fact, but orbital sanders and crown sanding machines are brutal

 

[jimmytbk]

has it got an offical name or just spinner??