Ronald Reagan and James Dean Video

[Kid Mac]

Clash of the icons -- Reagan and Dean in "The Dark, Dark Hours" episode of General Electric Theater aired live from Hollywood on December 12, 1954.

http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2010/04/ronald-reagan-and-james-dean-rare-video-from-1954/39238/

 

[Lincsong]

Excellent link. :eusa_clap Thanks for posting it. A terrific short highlighting the traditional masculine, brave, alpha male played by Ronald Reagan versus the limped, warped, wimped male played by James Dean. Something that wouldn't be produced today.

 

[Atterbury Dodd]

Thanks for sharing that. Amazing how much Dean's behavior reminds me of youngsters today(not that they would always show up with a gun, just the attitude).

 

[Lincsong]

Unforntunately, it's not youngster's who are acting like James Dean, it's 35 year old MEN, who act like that and have that attitude. Ronald Reagan was 43 when he played that role, how many 35 or 43 year olds today would have the back bone and bravery to stand up for his family? It's a real sad commentary that this short predicted the decline of masculinity 55 years ago. I've always said that Western Civilization reached it's apex in 1960 (specifically January 19,1961) and has been declining ever since.

 

[Lone_Ranger]

January 19,1961? Because JFK didn't wear a hat?

Compare that to, Jim Backus, as Dean's father, in Rebel Without a Cause.

So, Dean, while being an icon of masculinity, participated in it's decline. Or was it just a changing of the guard, between the old "rugged individual" type of masculinity, such as John Wayne, to the "troubled anti-hero," such as Dean?

 

[Lincsong]

Not the hat, other reasons, that can't be discussed on this forum.

Good point on the Jim Backus character in Rebel. That character was the stereotypical "hen pecked" husband, unable to take control of his house, or his family, always moving from his problems rather than take responsibility for them. The guy who thinks he can "buy" happiness, rather than show the guidance James Dean's character in the movie needed. The complete opposite of Reagan's character in this short.

I wouldn't characterize James Dean, Montgomery Clift or Marlon Brando as possessing or being a "icon of masculinity" on the screen. Quite the opposite, they portrayed weak characters at odds with their "roles" in society. Nothing masculine about them.

 

[Stearmen]

Macho Under 60

Unforntunately, it's not youngster's who are acting like James Dean, it's 35 year old MEN, who act like that and have that attitude. Ronald Reagan was 43 when he played that role, how many 35 or 43 year olds today would have the back bone and bravery to stand up for his family? It's a real sad commentary that this short predicted the decline of masculinity 55 years ago. I've always said that Western Civilization reached it's apex in 1960 (specifically January 19,1961) and has been declining ever since.

In case you missed it, the men and women dieing in our two wars are mainly 50 or younger, no macho 1950s types! I don't think President Reagan is the best example of family values, he is still our only divorced president! John Wayne is not the best either, with how many families? Now Jimmy Stuart, one family, decorated combat veteran, and retired a Brigader General! Interesting his life long best friend was Henry Fonda, a Liberal! Kennedy was also a combat veteran who was 4F, but pulled strings to get into combat! By the way, Is Bedtime For Bonzo considered one of those 50s macho rolls?

 

[Lincsong]

Point being?

Seems that the men in our Armed Services are macho 50's types. One of the few remaining Alpha males out there. Certainly not wishy sensitive, confused James Dean character's in search of an identity.

Kennedy was a James Dean type character, afterall he managed to get a P.T. Boat rammed by a Destroyer! That's like a racing motorcyle getting rammed by a semi-truck. Not to mention he and his Father's questionable business and electoral deals.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Careful gentlemen, you are skipping like flat stones skimmed across a pool of politics.

 

[Lincsong]

I agree Hem. I'll stick with the portrayal of the characters not the actors personal lives.

 

[Lone_Ranger]

In case you missed it, the men and women dieing in our two wars are mainly 50 or younger, no macho 1950s types!

I'm not trying to throw fuel on the fire, so I'll keep the political aspect out of it....

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. If I understand correctly, you are saying that soldiers today are younger (under 50) than the typical "macho 1950 type" (Over 40). I would say that the typical soldier is under 40. More like under 30. 40 would be "top end" of some of the positions you would hold after having 15 years of service in already.

The average age of a typical Army Master Sergeant is exactly in the 35-43 year old range, and not 43-50. And that's a top end position, held after 15 years on the job. A Master Sgt holding a 1st Sergeant position, would be the highest ranked NCO in a platoon. The 2nd Lieutenant, in overall command of the platoon would be about 22. And most of the soldiers in the unit will refer to the LT, as the "old man," because he's 2-4 years older than they are.

SUBJECT: Information Paper – Results of FY10 Selection List to Master Sergeant

e. The average age of those selected for promotion was 35 years 6 months. The oldest was 44 years 3 months and the youngest was 28 years 9 months. All calculations through this document are based on the official release date of 12 January 2010.

The average Time In Service (TIS) for those selected for promotion was 15.49 years. The highest was 21.14 years and the lowest was 10.42 years.

Linc's right, the men in the armed forces are some of the few remaining Alpha males out there. There aren't very many soldiers that can watch "We Were Soldiers Once," without a little chuckle at Sam Elliott's, portrayal of Sergeant Major Plumley. Because, they all experienced a Sergeant just like him. Likewise for Marines, and R. Lee Earmy's Gunnery Sergeant Hartman.

 

[Stearmen]

I'm not trying to throw fuel on the fire, so I'll keep the political aspect out of it....

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. If I understand correctly, you are saying that soldiers today are younger (under 50) than the typical "macho 1950 type" (Over 40). I would say that the typical soldier is under 40. More like under 30. 40 would be "top end" of some of the positions you would hold after having 15 years of service in already.
QUOTE]
Yes, you did misunderstand my statement! I said they are under 50 years old, meaning they had nothing to do with the good old 1950s! Which were only good if you were like me, a white male. Interestingly, also the hight of the union power. Still I like James Dean.

 

[Nathan Dodge]

I'm not so sure that Dean ever represented masculinity, but rather youth. Two of his roles were as troubled youths and the third was a troubled youth who couldn't handle success achieved at an early age. The likes of pre-Dean youth such as Mickey Rooney's Andy Hardy was certainly not an icon of masculinity, so why would Dean's? To claim that Brando, Clift, and Dean were somehow a new guard of massculinity is missing the point of their influence at the time they made their mark in movies, in that they represented a new view of youth and were seen as threats to the older generation.

 

[Stearmen]

PT-109

Kennedy was a James Dean type character, afterall he managed to get a P.T. Boat rammed by a Destroyer!

Sorry, but I could not let this revisionist history go by unchallenged! I think I will take Lieutenant Dick Keresey"s word over yours. He was skipper of PT-105, just one boat over from the 109 in Blackett Strait, he said Kennedy was doing exactly what they were ordered to do, and you could not see your hand in front of your face that night! Kennedy could have gone home after the 109, but stayed to turn PT-59 into the prototype Gun Boat! He had started this on the 109 with the addition of the 37mm cannon on the bow, not for sinking destroyers, but for barge busting, which the PT boats were being used for more and more! While his use of two 40mm Bofors on the 59 were rejected, the single stern mount was put on all Pt boats made after that time, and retrofitted to existing boats! He was in several fire fights with barges after that until his bad health caught up to him and he was sent home. He managed to keep his health private during subsequent campaigns, something that would not happen today. I wonder if we will ever elect some one in a wheel chare? Well, at least knowingly.Reagan was more like Dean, since nether served in combat. Back to Reagan and Dean, or the organelle odd couple!

 

[Tomasso]

Personally, I've always been skeptical of the truthfulness and accuracy of anything Kennedy. There was an award winning PR machine operating out of Hyannis Port.......

 

[conrad5157]

To claim that Brando, Clift, and Dean were somehow a new guard of massculinity is missing the point of their influence at the time they made their mark in movies, in that they represented a new view of youth and were seen as threats to the older generation.

This was perfectly illustrated by Wayne and Clift in Red River. Both were at the very top of their game, maybe Wayne's best.

 

[Nathan Dodge]

Personally, I've always been skeptical of the truthfulness and accuracy of anything Kennedy. There was an award winning PR machine operating out of Hyannis Port.......

I hope that skepticism runs to both sides of the fence, because if it doesn't, then I have some ice to sell you, my Eskimo friend.

 

[Nathan Dodge]

This was perfectly illustrated by Wayne and Clift in Red River. Both were at the very top of their game, maybe Wayne's best.

Great movie and a fine example of the "Generation Gap", which isn't exactly a new concept.

 

[Tomasso]

I hope that skepticism runs to both sides of the fence

It sure does. I'm an equal opportunity skeptic.

 

[Lincsong]

You'll see in the final seconds of this short, James Dean's character cry out; "hit me man", watching the context of how he said that, it wasn't in a defiant manner as in "I dare you" but more as in "no one has every taught me the difference between right and wrong". Similar to his character's portrayal in Rebel Without a Cause, the Father in the movie never disciplined him, but rather tried to "buy" his way out and run from his responsibility. Both characters need an authority figure in their lives to guide them. That seems to be the point between the two films.