Restoring a Vintage Belstaff ?

[PaulC]

Restoring a Belstaff Trialmaster?

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Morning all,
I'm new to the forum but am keen for some advice.My Grandfather has just given me his 1953(he thinks) Trialmaster.Unfortunately it was sitting in his shed for nearly 40 years until i asked him what type of jacket he wore on his Aerial square four.Imagine my delight when he told me it was a Trialmaster and was in the shed!Given the age and the storage it's actually not in bad condition.It's got the blue tartan lining with the chequered flag label and beige corduroy collar.There's no logo at all on the sleeves and has the rounded bottom 'Lightning' zips.To give you an idea of the last time he wore it,there's a Brands Hatch marsall badge from 22 Nov 1964 in the breast pocket!I was wondering if there was anywhere i could have the jacket brought back to it's former glory.The piece of the zip that slides into the main zipper has gone so i can't zip it properly and it could do with cleaning up,but i don't want to clean away the character of this lovely piece of my family history.I was hoping there was a specialist i could take it to..any ideas?

Regards.

 

[H.Johnson]

You know, if Belstaff hadn't been taken over by the Italians, you would be able to send it to the Caroline Street factory and have it completely reconditioned by the people who made it. Now, of course, they will advise you to throw it away and buy a new one.

That's progress.

You can freshen up the fabric easily using one of the proprietary re-waxing products (I recommend Barbour). I have restored 'thrown out' jackets to be almost like new. Black always restores better than green waxproof cloth.

The zip is more of a problem. I have looked in my 'bits draw' and I have a number of pullers from what I suspect is the right model of Lightning (that's the Lightning Witton factory in 1927 in my avatar, by the way) but I don't have a full zip.

I suggest that you replace the whole zip with one of the same metal finish (don't worry about the tape, you can dye it) and use the Lightning puller. You'll lose the 'c' clip stoppers and thumbgrip puller, but you will have a jacket you can use.

 

[PaulC]

Hello again,

Thanks for your quick response.I had noted that Barbour do exactly the service that i require,but Belstaff seem to be keener to sell me a 'will smith' jacket :eusa_doh: ,than keep the old ones alive.
Regarding the zip..is that something that a good dry cleaner/repair service would do or should i be seeking out a more specialised tailor or somewhere like Aero (maybe a tad extreme)..

once again,thanks for your excellent advice.

regards

Paul.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

If you lived in the US, I would advise you to send it here: http://www.newenglandreproofers.com/

They would do the work perfectly.

There must be someone in the UK that can do the same?

 

[H.Johnson]

Paul,

If the jacket is valuable to you, I would go with the experts. 'Aero' would be a good choice, but they are overloaded with work at the moment. If you could wait until January it would be better.

One thing I would try if I were you. Find a habersashery establishment that sells a wide range of zips. Market stalls are your best bet - Birmingham Rag Market would be my local choice, for instance. Take the jacket along and ask to try the 'feed end' (i.e. the broken end) in the good 'stop end'. It will need to be an old-style 'numbered' (i.e. 6, 8 etc.) size rather than a metric size and it will need to be the right length and approximately the right colour. Be patient, its not impossible to find such. Then just replace the one side of the zip. 'Aero' may even be able to help you with finding a half zip.

Good luck. Belstaff (and Lightning) are dear to me. I hope you succeed.

Hello again,

Thanks for your quick response.I had noted that Barbour do exactly the service that i require,but Belstaff seem to be keener to sell me a 'will smith' jacket :eusa_doh: ,than keep the old ones alive.
Regarding the zip..is that something that a good dry cleaner/repair service would do or should i be seeking out a more specialised tailor or somewhere like Aero (maybe a tad extreme)..

once again,thanks for your excellent advice.

regards

Paul.

 

[john z]

These people might be worth contacting as Belstaff is mentioned:

http://www.ravencroft-services.co.uk/

 

[PaulC]

Thank you all for your help..i'll crack on and contact Ravencroft today.

Paul.

 

[H.Johnson]

I know them and they are local to me. They don't specialise in vintage gear, but if you want me to call in on them, it's only a 'bus ride away.

 

[PaulC]

Thanks H,that kind of you.I've contacted Jan from there already.
She can replace the zip but says she would have to use a new Belstaff zip and new studs.I'd like to see if there's a chance of retaining the old poppers and Lightning pull before commiting myself...that said,she's quoted me £40 which seems very reasonable for the work.I can do the zip up no problem but with that tang(?) missing it's a little awkward to feed and may get damaged quickly so i guess i need to make a decision.
thanks again for you advice.

paul.

 

[H.Johnson]

Don't replace that zip!!! A period Belstaff without a Lightning is...well, not right. If the 'bucket' side is OK the other side isn't that much of a problem, really. Persist - it will be worth it. Tell me, does the 'feed piece' have a slight curve or is it straight?

 

[PaulC]

Hi H,
By the bucket side you me the side with the actual pull..the other side is the piece that's gone missing - the small piece of metal that slides into main zipper.I don't have it but i think it was curved.The rest of the zip's fine and does up..i just need to somehow reinforce that piece of material.If i could get such a piece is it possible to stick it or pinch one on with pliers?

Paul.

 

[PaulC]

incidentally,i don't know if it's the grime on the coat but it looks green.I thought they were only made in black?

 

[john z]

Hi H,
By the bucket side you me the side with the actual pull..the other side is the piece that's gone missing - the small piece of metal that slides into main zipper.I don't have it but i think it was curved.The rest of the zip's fine and does up..i just need to somehow reinforce that piece of material.If i could get such a piece is it possible to stick it or pinch one on with pliers?

Paul.

Yes, female (bucket) side is with the pull. As you've just got the male piece missing & if there's no damage to the webbing it should be an easy fix. I've done it before. Some zips have the male piece formed from thin plate so it is possible to open them up with care. Then it's a simple matter of positioning it on the webbing of your zip & gently closing it with pliers to crimp it in place.

For a replacement male piece I'd search the local charity shops for a cheap item with a suitable donor zip piece. I can tell you for sure that the genuine nylon issue USAF flight jackets such as the MA1, CWU & N2-B with zips from the likes of Ideal have the formed plate male pieces with are removable. I have one of each here & have just checked. Also these are the zips I've removed/replaced these pieces from/on.

Whether they'll fit your zip's female half is something you're going to have to determine for your self.

Wishing you good luck with the hunt.

 

[H.Johnson]

It's well worth keeping this early 50s Lightning if you can. If you can find a Lightning, Aero or Dot zip from the same era, it will possibly have the same type of curved feed (male) piece. I have looked again in my bits box and I have a number of whole Lightning,Dot and Aero open-end zips, close end zips and some pullers, but unfortunately (wouldn't you know it) no feed piece.

1940s and 50s zips tended to be made out of brass or bronze and are soft enough to work (carefully) onto the tape (as John says, assuming it isn't damaged). Later zips are either harder or more fragile (60s Lightnings are often in zinc and the parts break very easily). I doubt you'll find a curved feed piece on a modern zip, but (as John says) if you can find a brass (not anodised) zip you can, with care, usually ease off the feed piece and (equally carefully) fit it to the tape. Watch the spacing, the teeth have to mesh as well!

Good luck!

 

[PaulC]

Thanks Gents,
You've been a great help.I'm definately keeping the Lightning zip and i'll keep an eye out for a feed piece..who knows could be in the shed with the trousers.I'm guessing the trousers would have a closed zip and therefore not what i'm after?
Any thoughts regarding the green rather than black or is it my eyes playing tricks?

 

[H.Johnson]

Paul

I've been checking on the colour. When I worked for Belstaff, another member of staff had a dark green Trialmaster (sic) (a 'Sammy Miller' model IIRC) made in the same waxproofed cloth as the shooting jackets. I have always assumed that it was a 'one-off' (workers often acquired samples etc.) but in the light of your observations it could have been a rare production model. In the 1950s the shooting jackets weren't made, by the way.

One other possibility - given the time your jacket was made, there would have been a lot of finely woven Egyption cotton died in olive green on the roll. It is just possible that this valuable fabric was over-dyed black (it covers most colours) and that it has now partly faded back to its original colour. Just a thought.

 

[PaulC]

Hello again H,

Thanks again for all your help.I spoke to my Grandad but his memory on where he bought the coat and which colour were a bit hazy..he's 89 now..I looked under the pocket flaps and into the seams and it looks like the jacket was originally black and has faded over the years as you suggested.As for the zip,I've asked Amanda from Aero to send me down a zip to see if i can use that for my 'male' piece.She doubted it would work,but was happy to humour me.As for cleaning it,i've been told cold water's the way to go,but someone also suggested white spirit(!!) which i wasn't sure about.
The main thing is that i wore the jacket on saturday and even in it's filthy state covered in 40 years of grime...it felt great to be wearing a little piece of (very cool) history...it got some admiring glances in 'Paul Smith' in covent garden too..although that could have been my 3 month old baby daughter...

Thanks again for your input.This forum has been invaluable.

Paul.

 

[muzz63]

Dating Belstaff jackets?

Hi, does anyone know if there is a good resource for dating these jackets. I have one with a dark tartan I haven't seen anywhere else, no internal pocket, angled left pocket, Sammy Miller badge which all sounds late 60's/early 70's, but with a YKK zip (looks original) - I think that put's it after 1974? But I've seen jackets with the newer label that claim to be early 1970's too.

I'd appreciate any help with identifying the time period for this.

Cheers, Muzz

 

[H.Johnson]

Without seeing the jacket I couldn't date it precisely, but the presence of a YKK zip is significant. 1970 marked roughly the start of the 'zip wars' that saw YKK (allegedly) dumping zips on the European market at little or no profit to put (allegedly) the indigenous manufacturers out of business.

Walter, Belstaff's trimmings buyer was even treated to a trip to Japan 'to see their factory'. Judging by the stories he told when he got back it wasn't only the factory they showed him! Anyway, by 1974 Lightning were really in difficulties (it was raised repeatedly in Parliament) and Belstaff began to use YKK zips almost exclusively, although due to poor stock control (allegedly, and guess who was responsible for that...) the company used up its existing stocks of Lightnings etc. over th enext couple fo years. Same with labels, to a lesser extent.

So, in brief (sorry to ramble) a YKK with a Sammy Miller label could be any time in the from the beginning to the middle of the 1970s.

 

[muzz63]

Thanks H.Johnson for the reply - you are a great resource! I have attached a photo of the tartan liner - I haven't seen another this colour in all the searching I've done. I'm wondering if it looks distinctive to you. As mentioned, the jacket has no internal pocket and an angled left breast pocket.

Thanks again for looking.

Cheers, Murray.