Replacing un-reeded sweatbands? My "new" Borsalino needs some help.

[mattface]

I've got a 30's vintageBorsalino it's in amazing condition except for the original sweatband which is coming out. The way I wear a hat I don't think it's long for this world. I'd love to keep this hat as close to original as possible, but I also want to wear it a lot, so the sweat's gotta go.



My options as I see them are two tiered, First go with unreeded, or modernize it with a reeded sweatband. Second send it out, or doit myself.

I figure there is probably a cost factor involved if I send it out to having a non-reeded sweatband installed, but also perhaps a durability issue? Aside from originality is there any advantage to the non-reeded sweatband? How important is originality really considering this hat will never have the original band again?

If I go with non-reeded and decide to send it out, can anyone recommend someone who does this sort of restoration work well?

If I decide to do it on my own, I'm thinking I could simply remove the reed from a new replacement sweat and whip stitch it in by hand. Is this reasonably authentic?

Finally, long shot here: I don't suppose anyone has an old trashed Borsalino with a more or less pristine sweatband they'd like to sell me?

 

[fedoralover]

I haven't heard of anyone that can still do unreeded anymore. Maybe someone else here knows of a hatter that does. It takes a special sewing machine to do it. Art has one but he told me he could never get it to work right. Although he may have gotten the bugs out by now. They just don' hold up as well as a reeded one. If you plan on keeping the hat it would be better to just have a hatter do it.

fedoralover

 

[alanfgag]

Agree with fedoralover that it is going to be a hard road to reattach the original unreeded sweat. You might read this thread, and follow the link at the end to Lefty's Playboy sweatband story. Borsalino unreeded sweats with the corrugated airspace in the front pose an added level of complexity for restoration. If you enjoy wearing the hat, having a hatter replace it with a modern reeded sweat would be the simplest solution. It looks like a great hat and looks good on you... though I am curious why you feel it is from the 1930s?

 

[mattface]

though I am curious why you feel it is from the 1930s?

Honestly I have no experience dating Borsalinos, I know the non-reeded sweat makes it older at least 40s. Th reason I say thirties is because that's what another lounger who traded it to me said. I would be most interested to know more about dating non-stetson hats. THere seems to be a lot of info about dating Stetsons, although even that seems pretty vague in spots.

 

[rlk]

Most US Market Borsalino are non-reeded right up to current offerings. No dating info from that feature. Many European and preWW2 Borsalinos had reeded sweatbands. I would replace it(preserving remnants) or tack it in at a few points and wear until it falls apart...

 

[alanfgag]

Borsalino dating is one of the dark arts. The Borsalino Brotherhood is, of course, a place to start. Unreeded sweatbands with the front corrugated spacer and this particular liner crest were used much more recently than the 1940s... certainly in the 1970s and perhaps into the 1980s prior to the relocation of the factory in Alessandria.

 

[HeyMoe]

That is a nice looking hat!

 

[mattface]

THanks all. It looks to me like if I want to wear this hat a lot, which I do, the best choice is to sew in a modern reeded sweat. I've got one coming from Panama Bob, that should be here tomorrow, that one's destined for a brown Stetson 3x. I have an inkling that I may be able to stitch it in with my sewing machine, but if not I'll do it by hand. It's a good one to practice on, because it's a beautiful hat that I'll really enjoy wearing, but if I wreck it I won't be heartbroken. If that goes well perhaps I'll attempt the same on the Borsa, if not I'll send it out to get it fixed.

 

[mattface]

That is a nice looking hat!

Thanks, & THANKS! I'm really loving it. Where DID you come up with the 1930s figure?

 

[mattface]

Most US Market Borsalino are non-reeded right up to current offerings. No dating info from that feature. Many European and preWW2 Borsalinos had reeded sweatbands. I would replace it(preserving remnants) or tack it in at a few points and wear until it falls apart...

So if current Borsalinos have non-reeded bands, is there anyone who services them with original bands?

It's already tacked, but my head and disintegrating leather don't get along. it's not long for this world.

 

[HeyMoe]

Thanks, & THANKS! I'm really loving it. Where DID you come up with the 1930s figure?

I came up with late 30s - early 40s from the label under the sweat. It looks like none of the ones I could find in the brotherhood thread and some searching on google pulled up one that was similar - and the author of that post had it listed as a '39 lid.

If you move the sweat gently you can see it....or check this post to see the photos. BTW, you will see what the sweat looked like when I picked it up, I had no idea how fragile it really was :eusa_doh:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...w-Hats-Here!&p=1298414&highlight=#post1298414

 

[HeyMoe]

Unreeded sweatbands with the front corrugated spacer and this particular liner crest were used much more recently than the 1940s... certainly in the 1970s and perhaps into the 1980s prior to the relocation of the factory in Alessandria.

the hat is obviously not from the 70s and based on the lables inside is much older than that and I am quite certin I read a post here on the FL that stated that non-reeded sweats were older and that in the 60s they went to reeded.

 

[mattface]

I came up with late 30s - early 40s from the label under the sweat. It looks like none of the ones I could find in the brotherhood thread and some searching on google pulled up one that was similar - and the author of that post had it listed as a '39 lid.

If you move the sweat gently you can see it....or check this post to see the photos. BTW, you will see what the sweat looked like when I picked it up, I had no idea how fragile it really was :eusa_doh:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...w-Hats-Here!&p=1298414&highlight=#post1298414

Yeah the sweat on my Stetson 3x lookd more or less perfect when I first got it too, but then it disintegrated when I started wearing it. I guess that's just part of the game with vintage leather, sometimes it looks fine, but apply a little moisture and it disintegrates. I guess that's why I'm hoping to get good at replacing sweats. So far out of 4 vintage lids I've had 2 sweats that looked fine disintegrate, not a great track record, but the hats still beat the snot out of any recently manufactured hat I've worn, so it's worth it to me to put some work into restoring them when it's needed. I didn't realize you'd gotten it so recently!

 

[HeyMoe]

I didn't realize you'd gotten it so recently!

I loved the hat but I just didn't wear it enough and it made me feel like a preacher when I did wear it. The Champ is exactly what I was looking for

 

[zetwal]

I came up with late 30s - early 40s from the label under the sweat. It looks like none of the ones I could find in the brotherhood thread and some searching on google pulled up one that was similar - and the author of that post had it listed as a '39 lid.

Is this the label to which you refer? I have cut and pasted it from the link you provide.

 

[HeyMoe]

no, the other one with the fountain pen ink.

Images of other similar tags show a crisper black ink, some sort of boarder as I remember and a letter after the first numeral set so 4567C as an example. This has none of those and the fountain pen ink is another clue - ball point pens were very popular, if I remember correctly, by 1944 and by the end of the decade had pretty much taken over. To be sure a number of people still used fountain pens though.

This is the type of label /tag I am refering too:

see last photo for another example

 

[mattface]

I loved the hat but I just didn't wear it enough and it made me feel like a preacher when I did wear it. The Champ is exactly what I was looking for

I liked the champ, but it just wasn't a good color for me. Nice how that works out.

 

[alanfgag]

This is the type of label /tag I am refering too:

Manufacturing tags with the Borsalino name running up the short dimension are generally found in earlier hats. The OPS tag would date that hat between 1951 - 1953. Matt's is later than this. Handwritten info is not unusual on Borso tags. Here is another example... also late 50s to 60s.

 

[bond]

I have a couple of sweats . What size do you need?

 

[mattface]

I have a couple of sweats . What size do you need?

7 1/8-7 1/4