Relationship Between Pants' Rise and Jacket?

[Dick Ireland]

Dear FLers,

I've searched the forums here and I still have a question about the "proper" rise of suit trousers in the Golden Age, particularly when talking about a two-piece, single-breasted suit where it is most visible:

Is the waistband supposed to rest behind the lower button that closes?


Example: if I wear a 3-button SB suit and button the middle button, should the waistband of my trousers rest behind that middle buttonhole?

In my opinion, one area of modern suits that is lacking is that they show a lot of shirt BELOW the lowest closed button, and often the tie sticks out there, too. I'm experimenting with wearing my suit pant higher, modeled on old photos, but I'm not sure if I'm on to a kind of "rule" here or not.

Thanks.

-dick

 

[SteveAS]

In my opinion, one area of modern suits that is lacking is that they show a lot of shirt BELOW the lowest closed button, and often the tie sticks out there, too.

This is a great pet peeve of mine, too. I don't know the answer to your question, but I look forward to more knowledgeable gentlemen's replies on that subject.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Well, it's not a rule, of course, but the trousers waistband should be on your waist. And the button that is fastened should be on the waist. So they should be approx on the same point, for the best look vis balance and proportion.

 

[MB15]

Hello,
no rule at all, but what i do: When you wear your pants, button you jacket, and stand in front of an mirror. If your jacket is buttoned, there should be no shirt visible. That's also what i saw from photos and advertises from the golden age, so i guess that's how it should work best. On most pictures it looked like the trousers waistband was shortly below the closing button of the jacket, sometimes only an eyelid away from each other.
Greetings
Marco

 

[Matt Deckard]

The fit I tend to go for is where the waistband of the trousers in right below the center button of the jacket.

When I sit the jacket will go right to the waist of the pants and i sit with my suit buttoned pretty often. If you put the waist of the pants right at the fulcrum button of the suit ... well it rides just as well as right below, but your jacket will ride up a bit more when you sit. And yes... ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOU ARENT SHOWING YOUR SIRT UNDER YOUR JACKET AND ABOVE YOUR WAIST WHEN YOUR JACKET IS BUTTONED!

 

[Tomasso]

the trousers waistband should be on your waist. And the button that is fastened should be on the waist. So they should be approx on the same point, for the best look vis balance and proportion.

Ditto.

 

[Guttersnipe]

The exact placement of waistband in relation to jacket waist depends somewhat on body type and personal preference.

For example, in Dressing the Man, Alan Flusser says, "When the waist button of a coat is fastened, it should divide the body so that the torso and legs appear at maximum length . . . The correct placement of this critical detail occurs 1/2 inch bellow the natural waist."

This is why there is a little variation in the exact proportions, but note that the uniform consensus (by those who reject high button stance, low rise trouser nonsense) is that waistband of the trousers and jacket closure should all fall roughly at the natural waist.

 

[thunderw21]

Here's a piece I wrote that I think is relevant to this topic.
http://mrlapel.blogspot.com/2012/10/back-to-basics-proportionality.html

In order to make a man appear balanced and well proportioned to the human eye, he should wear his trousers at or about his waist. Doing so works with the concept of the "Golden Ratio".

The jacket has little to do with where the trousers sit, though a slightly shorter vintage-style jacket gives the wearer better proportions than a longer modern jacket (depending upon the man).

The waist should be the foundation around which every piece of a suit/outfit is based.

 

[Tomasso]

Sadly, today much of men's tailored clothing is meant to be worn ironically.

 

[Dick Ireland]

Any suggestions on how to get this "proportional" look with modern suits? It sounds like I'd need to buy long pants and short jackets but most places I've been wouldn't let you mix and match like that. I generally have the tailor let out the crotch as much as he can, but still most modern pants intended for my size can't be worn at or around the navel without pinching uncomfortable when sitting, if not standing, too.

 

[Tomasso]

Any suggestions on how to get this "proportional" look with modern suits?

See if you can find a retailer who will order your suits with split jacket/trouser sizing; like a regular jacket with long trousers as the rise of RTW suit trousers will increase commensurate with the length of the jacket. And of course, there's always the MTM/bespoke route.

 

[Dick Ireland]

See if you can find a retailer who will order your suits with split jacket/trouser sizing; like a regular jacket with long trousers as the rise of RTW suit trousers will increase commensurate with the length of the jacket. And of course, there's always the MTM/bespoke route.

Right now I'm a second-hand buyer only, but someday!

In the meantime, I find that even a lot of your average, low-rise suit pants, if they have enough inseam, can be braced up to a respectable resting place. At least enough to hide the shirt when standing.

 

[GBR]

Matt is right. I prefer to use the button point of a three button coat - ie the middle one. Whilst Matts suggests a little under I do prefer a little over that point to get the best fit.

 

[Dick Ireland]

Out of curiosity, what rise do you gents find makes for the best fit?

I have one suit that really fits really, like an early 40s suit would. The pants have a 12" rise. Two pairs of separate pants with an 11" rise also come high enough, though only one of them is really comfortable at navel-height; couldn't say what the different is between them.

I think I would look for more 12" rise pants. What works best for you guys?

 

[Tomasso]

What works best for you guys?

That's kinda like asking what shoe size works best. I have mine made with a 12.5" rise but really it's dependent on an individual's physique.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Out of curiosity, what rise do you gents find makes for the best fit?

I have one suit that really fits really, like an early 40s suit would. The pants have a 12" rise. Two pairs of separate pants with an 11" rise also come high enough, though only one of them is really comfortable at navel-height; couldn't say what the different is between them.

I think I would look for more 12" rise pants. What works best for you guys?

Based on what I've seen looking at the measurements of vintage suits listed online and taking measurements for my own eBay auctions, I'd say that as far as 40s suits go, a 12" rise was fairly standard for suits taged short and a 13" rise was fairly standard on suits taged regular. Of course those are approximate figures based on lots of generalization.

A.C. is quite right in saying that one's optimal rise is very dependent on physique and personal taste. It's also worth noting that even a 1/2" difference in rise can make a dramatic difference in fit.

 

[Tomasso]

It's also worth noting that even a 1/2" difference in rise can make a dramatic difference in fit.

Yep, and there's also the fit of the stride which is located in the crotch area. Variances in the stride can give the same height rise a very different fit.

 

[Dick Ireland]

Yep, and there's also the fit of the stride which is located in the crotch area. Variances in the stride can give the same height rise a very different fit.

Yes, I have found that when I run for the bus none of my pants are very comfortable afterwards!

Another question about showing shirt below the buttoned button: If you put both your hands in your pockets, peeling back the lower jacket on both sides, should you still not see shirt? I find that doing this makes my shirt and sometimes tie peek out, but if I allow an inch or so between the buttom and waistband, I can't avoid it.

I am probably being overscrupulous, but I have two second-hand suits arriving on Christmas that will need to be tailored, and I want to get the inseam right this time.

Thanks.

 

[Apollo]

Out of curiosity, what rise do you gents find makes for the best fit?

I have one suit that really fits really, like an early 40s suit would. The pants have a 12" rise. Two pairs of separate pants with an 11" rise also come high enough, though only one of them is really comfortable at navel-height; couldn't say what the different is between them.

I think I would look for more 12" rise pants. What works best for you guys?

Hey! I know this old, what is the back rise measurement for those pants? Thanks

 

[Peacoat]

Hey! I know this old, what is the back rise measurement for those pants? Thanks

Doubt you will get much of a response from Dick Ireland as he hasn't been here in a little over 8 years.