Recommend a Panama ...

[Ginseng]

Hello Gentlemen and Ladies,

I've started to put my heavier fur felts away what with the Virginia spring rolling in now. I'm looking to put up 1 or 2 summer weight hats. One ought to surely be a Panama of some kind, but the other, I'm not quite sure.

Reading through the big Panama thread has been a bit daunting but illuminating. I'm looking for one or two reasonably priced hats, perhaps from Panama Bob, or Gomez. I'm looking for one more casual and one more dressy, either one capable of being worn on a regular basis. What do you think I should consider? Can I get a decent hat for under $100?

For reference, my favorite hats for daily wear right now are Akubras, CD and Fed IV Deluxes.

Any guidance would be much appreciated!

 

[JackieMatra]

Panamas are great for hot weather, but they're unwearable in the wet unless you intend to get a new one every time one gets soaked.
There are panama and other straw hats that are treated to resist water, but I've found them to be uncomfortably hot, assuming that it's because if they don't let water through then they don't let much air through either. In either case, I would absolutely recommend that you get a warm weather hat with a leather sweatband, as I have found that cotton sweatbands will soak through completely to the hat in no time at all in hot weather, while that doesn't occur with leather sweatbands.

My experience with panama hat sellers has been less than stellar.
I know that this forum just loves PanamaBob, and I will probably catch hell from a fair number of its denizens for saying this, but my experience with him was really dismal. Perhaps he treats customers who pay him hundreds of dollars better than me, who only ordered two cheap hats from him to see what his hats and service were like, but ten months of failing to answer or return telephone calls and e-mails, stalling, promising, apologizing, delaying, and apologizing some more. before eventually offering a refund, and then finally delivering hats in August that had been ordered in October of the previous year, even if he threw in two free cheapies that were albeit actually nicer than the hats that I ordered from him, was really something that has put me off from ever even attempting to deal with him again.

PanamaHatsDirect and PanamaHatMall have decent Cuenca hats at decent prices, but they come with cotton sweatbands and there's the problem of the hats not necessarily being as described or pictured. Expect about a 60 to 65 weave count on these hats.
I do have and like three of PanamaHatsDirect's "double-woven" Cuenca hats. The nice thing about these is that the photographs on their website are of the actual individual hats and they have leather sweatbands, and the hats that I bought from them were exactly as pictured and described. These "double-woven" (llano weave) Cuenca hats come with sewn-in liners which I find make them way too hot in the summer, but you can always remove them with a little work and the aid of a sharp blade. You can also get whole lot of nice ribbon bow hatbands from PanamaHatsDirect shipped along with your hat, which will enable to give your hat a lot of completely different looks. I know of nowhere else where you can find such huge selection of hatbands, or at such low prices. One curious thing about PanamaHatsDirect is that the last time that I checked, they were charging a whole lot more for shipping in the spring and summer than in the fall and winter. It also seems that you either have to be on PanamaHatsDirect's mailing list or to contact them in order to see their "double-woven" (llano weave) Cuenca hats, as they are not usually found on their website.

Berkeley Hat Company sells a nice lower priced safari-style Cuenca that the owner of the store shapes himself. Expect about a 50 to 55 weave count on this hat. It comes with your choice of color pugaree and without a sweatband, which makes it nice and cool, but don't expect it to stay on your head if the wind speed exceeds ten miles per hour.
http://www.berkeleyhat.com/panamahat.html

I have heard tell that Borsalino's panama hats are made (or more accurately, finished) for them by Tesi. I have looked at and tried on a fair number of Borsalino panama hats, and I own a Tesi Montecristi panama hat, and it would seem to me that it is, indeed, very likely that the Borsalino and Tesi panama hats are actually both from the same hatter. The Tesi that I purchased has an approximately 150 weave count. The Tesi panama hats also have unusually tall crowns which will be well off the top of your head even if you wear the hat down on your ears, which is not the case with hardly any of my other straw hats. You can buy Tesi panama hats from BenCraft for about half the price of Borsalinos, but don't wait too long, as they regularly annually sell out of them fairly quickly. Also, make it a point to order from BenCraft by telephone rather than from their website, as they often do not have hats that are shown on their website in stock, (which is true of many other retailers, as well, to tell the truth and not just pick on BenCraft).
http://www.bencrafthats.com/list.php?cattype=2&subcatid=11&subcname=Tesi

I really like Akubra's hemp hats. They're nowhere near as light as panamas, but they're much much sturdier, and water doesn't bother them in the least, and they all come with leather sweatbands. My favorite casual bigger ones are the Reef and Range with 3.25" raw edge brims, which are the same hat except that the Range has a vented crown. Nice casual smaller Akubra hemp hats are the Byron and the Planter with 3.125" bound brims, which are the same hat except that the Planter has a turned up rolled edge brim and a different hatband. For a more formal look, there's the Akubra Balmoral with a 2.75" bound brim, and you can always replace its stock hatband with something dressier.

Of course, for really hot (and wet) weather, a real pith helmet just can't be beat. It's a helmet, so it mostly doesn't actually touch your head, leaving lots of room for air to circulate around your head. It's my 98 degree plus headwear. I've walked over three miles in that sort of heat at a 4 mph pace and arrived at my destination, wearing a pith helmet, not soaked in sweat. Really, I kid you not. Furthermore, not only does water not harm a pith helmet, it will actually not soak through and will keep your head dry in the rain, unlike a straw or hemp hat. The only drawback is that you may not particularly care for the look. Here's the only place that I know of where you can buy real (not synthetic or straw or paper) pith helmets.
http://www.villagehatshop.com/category/84/1/pith-helmets.html

 

[Frunobulax]

Thanks Jackie. A well-timed post for the season, as I'm really looking at straws right now too.

 

[Ginseng]

Jackie, thank you for that amazing and informative post. Talk about stickie-worthy. I'll launch my investigations based on this information.

 

[JackieMatra]

$150 for the Tesis, and everything else mentioned should be under $60, disregarding shipping costs, as per Ginseng's requested price range.
For "better quality" panamas at "better quality" prices, check out the Panama Hat thread, or send several thousand dollars, or more, to Brent Black.

 

[JackieMatra]

Ginseng,
"PanamaHatsDirect and PanamaHatMall have decent Cuenca hats at decent prices, but they come with cotton sweatbands and there's the problem of the hats not necessarily being as described or pictured."
The first PanamaHatsDirect "Havana" Cuenca hat that I bought was just as pictured and described, a subsequent pair was rather different in having lower crowns, narrower brims, and a somewhat different shape.
PanamaHatMall's Cuenca hats tend to have brims that are on the short range of their descriptions or even slightly shorter.
Their "white" Cuenca hats are extremely thin and lightweight. Take that as positive or negative, as you wish.
Their Cuenca "Gambler", that I got, bears little resemblance to what is shown on their website, in that the brim is actually severely tapered and downturned all the way around, so that it actually looks very much like a very "tight" umbrella, and the downturn taper is so severe that nothing can be done to alter it.
Only one of the 4 hats for the price of 2 that I got from PanamaBob were really the size that I ordered, but I'm fairly adept at resizing hats to fit me if they're within a size, and these, fortunately, were.

 

[hatsRme]

FWIW... I have several Panama Hats Direct products, and in EVERY case the leather sweatband had to be immediately replaced. Within an hour of putting on these lids I developed an amazing allergic reaction (contact dermatitis; Eeeww-AH!) on my little forehead. The last one I purchased sans sweatband, and had Vince Corvelli put in a "legal" leather band. But I am a very sensitive guy...

 

[JackieMatra]

I've never had any such problem with any PanamaHatsDirect hats, or any other hats, panama or otherwise, myself.

 

[tonyb]

I've had very high quality panamas (they feel like linen) and I've had cheapies, and I've had several in between.

If what you want is a hat to wear in hot, sunny weather, under circumstances that might well lead to you sweating quite a bit, get a cheapie. If you expect to be really puttin' on the dog in your finest of summertime finery, get a Montecristi and bring a handkerchief to wipe the sweat from your noggin before it transfers through the leather to the hat body.

If the style is an important consideration (of course it is), search for a hatter who has a block in the style (and size) you wish. The crowns on straws are creased on shaped blocks (done properly they are, anyway) -- pressed in with corresponding pieces called tippers.

You may wish to look into a semi-colado -- a straw body with "open" weave on the crown, to allow for greater air flow. I got a cheapie (coarsely woven) Cuenca semi-colado that gets worn quite a bit on hot, sunny days. And if it gets blown off my head on a freeway overpass and lands on the road below, or if it gets sat upon by the big fat lady of song, well, it's just a cheap hat. Got my money's worth out of it long ago.

As has been noted many times before, straws are a whole 'nuther animal from felts. They require different sets of skills and equipment -- and that equipment can be very elusive and quite costly. Hence, there are relatively few hatters who can honestly claim they are well positioned to produce finished straw hats. I know a couple of such people -- Art Fawcett and Tom Gomez -- and can recommend either. Knowing the time and expense each has invested in himself and his equipment leaves me thinking that their prices are well within reason.

I can offer anecdotes of old straw-hat blocks that were missing not only the tippers but chunks of the block itself, which the hatter sent off to a fellow who repairs such things and fashions the corresponding tippers, at considerable expense. The hatter would have to sell several hats built on that block before it could be argued that his expenditure was worthwhile, and that might take a good long while, seeing how people wanting that particular style in that particular size, and who are willing to pay for it, aren't to be found in every supermarket parking lot. But the block, which in many cases is older than almost all of us, lives on, and may very well continue living on long after we're all gone.

 

[LeBois46]

I agree with Tony. I have several "Panama" hats as well. Here in Southern California we don't worry about the rain in the summer when you would be wearing such. Rain can really mess up the whole thing, real quickly. Remember there is a big difference between a Cuenca weave and a Montecristi weave. You might want to try Panama Hat Co. in St. Augustine, FL. They have nice looking Cuenca hats for under $100. I have one that I use on a regular basis. I save my Montecristi from Brent Black for special occasions. Below I provide the link to Panama Hat Co.

http://mypanamahat.com/

 

[JackieMatra]

As I recall, as of last year, all of Panama Hat Co. of St. Augustine's hats were "treated" to be water and stain resistant and additionally had "pinch protectors" to make them all the hotter and less comfortable. Okay for sitting in the shade or air-conditioning. Not so good for actually doing something out in the sun.

 

[JackieMatra]

Some drawbacks to expensive straw hats are:

a.They will fail to impress most anyone since hardly anyone is knowledgeable enough to appreciate them.
b.Even if someone is knowledgeable enough to appreciate a fine panama hat, they still have to get close enough to get a good look at it.
c.You can only safely wear them outdoors on not-too-hot sunny days, or wear them indoors.
d.Outdoors you have to be on the lookout not only for rain clouds, but also for birds and falling objects.
e.You really shouldn't do anything even mildly strenuous that might cause you to perspire while wearing one.
f.You must be certain that your hands are immaculately clean before you consider touching your hat, much less putting it on or taking it off.
g.If the hat is so tightly woven that water can be carried in it, then it probably isn't going to let much air through very easily either.
h.Do you really want to spend this much of your money on a work of art, or might there be something else you may want to do with your money?

If none of the above cause you any concern, and art and beauty are of greater importance to you than a myriad of other things, then, by all means go and get yourself an ultra ultra fino Montecristi panama hat. Otherwise, a less expensive Cuenca panama hat, Akubra hemp hat, or pith helmet would likely be a far better choice of a way to ward of summer sunburn.

 

[LeBois46]

As I recall, as of last year, all of Panama Hat Co. of St. Augustine's hats were "treated" to be water and stain resistant and additionally had "pinch protectors" to make them all the hotter and less comfortable. Okay for sitting in the shade or air-conditioning. Not so good for actually doing something out in the sun.

Never had any problem. A lot cooler than my fur felts. I live where if the humidity gets into the 40% range it's considered "muggy". But if I lived in that swamp called Maryland, that might be a different story.

 

[JackieMatra]

I have one of these "treated to be water and stain resistant with pinch and hatband protector" panamas.
I went for a pleasant little stroll, nearly all downhill, through the District of Columbia, from the Free State line, down to the Potomac, on a nice cool but sunny 95 degree summer day while wearing it.
The sweatband was soaking wet within a short time, then the "hatband protector" soaked through, then the hat despite its "water resistance", then the hatband and the glue that held it in place. I stopped to bend over and re-tie a shoelace and the hatband fell off. Not a problem, as I didn't particularly care for it anyway. Later replaced it with a much snazzier hatband. Wore the hat one time since, when it drizzled. Looked quite snazzy. Have other even cooler looking hats. Haven't worn it since. None of the above has ever happened with my pith helmet or Akubras, or "untreated" panamas.

 

[tropicalbob]

Tonyb, would you happen to know Tom's price range? I'm going to call him in the next day or so and don't want to have to demur if the prices are too high. It's always a bit embarrasing.

 

[tropicalbob]

Ginseng, have you looked at the Sunbody hats? They're very reasonably priced, and they can take the rain: in fact, you can drench the bodies and shape them any way you like. I got the standard 3" brim a few months back and didn't wear it because it just felt too big and the brim was downturned all the way around. Then one day I said what the hell, soaked it, and gave the brim a slight upturn all the way around. Now it's my favorite straw, right after my VS Milan, and I don't have to worry about the rain (In Miami the weather changes every ten minutes this time of year). It's a great hat, but a bit on the heavy side.

 

[AndyR]

Tropicalbob, thanks for the tip on this product. Never heard of them. I checked them out and I like what I see. If my Panama order doesn't work out, I think I'll consider their 2 1/2 inch tear drop, fine palm. Had I not ordered what's coming, I probably would be ordering from them already.

Andy

 

[tonyb]

Tonyb, would you happen to know Tom's price range? I'm going to call him in the next day or so and don't want to have to demur if the prices are too high. It's always a bit embarrasing.

I think it depends on what he has for straw bodies to work with. But I've never known him not to have a supply of bodies in various grades available.

Another reason I don't do straws, aside from my lack of the skills and equipment peculiar to the beasts, is that keeping hat bodies in the pipeline requires cultivating relationships with people who know people who know people. And I suspect it might be of some benefit to speak Spanish, which I don't. I've heard tales of people who thought they had a good supply of hat bodies awaiting them down in Ecuador only to find those bodies had been sold out from under them.

(And I know of people who have bought "finished" [such as they were] straw hats in Montecristi itself, and the silly gringos believed what they were told, that the hat itself was a Montecristi, when in reality it was a lesser hat woven elsewhere. Indeed, I took possession of one such Yankee tourist's hat and sent it to Tom Gomez to reblock it and put a better sweatband and ribbon on it. On its return, the hat's owner could hardly believe it was the same hat. As a general rule, let the Ecuadorians weave the bodies, but leave the finishing to the Americanos.)

Tom is a friendly guy who seems always happy to talk hats, so I say give him a ring.

 

[tonyb]

As to Sunbody hats ...

Yeah, as tropicalbob noted, Sunbody hats are heavy. But the styles are pretty nice ("classic," for lack of a better term), and they are quite inexpensive.

 

[vmtrevino2]

Search for a Dobbs Rosebud Milan straw hat. Under $100 and can be used as dress or casual