Public Enemies

[Biggles]

Question from a newbie,,Just finished a book with above title on the US Bank Robbers of '33-'35..several of the photos' show belt-supported trousers & collar attached shirts..now from a UK point of view,this seems a little early,so just wondered when these came into use in the States?..whilst on the criminal element,does anyone else wonder on the practicality of a shoulder holster under a double-breasted jacket?..."Hold on,Youse guys..it's in here somwhere..."

 

[Wild Root]

Interesting question you have. Belt supported trousers? Are you referring to the small belt like straps on ether side of the trouser or a single half belt with buckle at the back of the trouser? This style was evident into 1939 from what I have seen. Also, detachable collars were used into the 1940's.

Shoulder holsters were used by mob members but, not always the #1 choice by the mobs. They mostly packed their heat in pockets and suit cases. The "feds", undercover police and privet ?¢‚Ǩ?ìDicks?¢‚Ǩ? packed their heat in shoulder holsters. As to the double breasted suits, it wasn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t too hard to pull a rod out. Just seems that it would be. Also, if you watch most gangster films from 1933-1935, you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ll see that most of the hoods pack their gats in their outer suit pocket and they point it from within the pocket like so:

This kept it out of sight of the public and also just looked tough I think.

Hope that helps,
=WR=

 

[Matt Deckard]

Yeah... see see! /\. You gotta learn the business before you can go on the jobs with the big wigs here in the Lounge.

You can't be throwin' on a shoulder holster and gettin' caught in your jacket durin' a job. I carry my gat in my pocket and anyone who tells you elswise is spewin banana oil in yer ears!

 

[Biggles]

Thanks,Guys,
That's a full belt through loops the photos show..Ok for gun in pocket..but a loaded .45 would absolutely ruin the cut,surely.....?

 

[Wild Root]

Thanks,Guys,
That's a full belt through loops the photos show..Ok for gun in pocket..but a loaded .45 would absolutely ruin the cut,surely.....?

Those are belts with loops you see. That shot is taken from "The Dead End Kids" staring James Cagney and the Bowery Boys. Young boys of that class of American people couldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t afford well tailored clothes with small details. Belts with loops were very common in those days.

In the depression, men's suits were cut in certain ways to enable a man to carry objects in outer pockets with out bulges. A well tailored suit could lend it's self to concealing a 45. and not interrupt the flow of the suit's cut. Also, not all Hollywood gangsters carried 45's. They carried smaller hand guns some times to slip into their pockets.

Watching gangster movies of the 1930's and early 1940's will give you a great education on the style and manors of underground life of the early
20th century. It will be Hollywood?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s view on the subject yes, but nevertheless, a fun one to watch!

Cheese it, the cops!

=WR=

PS. Edward G Robinson was also a top thug of the 30's in Hollywood! He packed his heat in his inside breast pocket! Shoulder holsters didn't work with a three piece suit very well.

 

[Biggles]

Just a thought...Sure there's room for a book on "The Guns that made the '20's Roar"..or something like that...Maybe Osprey could do something..they've gone into Law Enforcement with titles on the Texas Rangers & The Mounties.....

 

[scottyrocks]

I didnt want to start a new thread when there were old ones about this movie.

I finally saw it just now. I thought it was a really good movie. I enjoyed it very much.

I have a question. In the scene when the feds are chasing Dillinger, Nelson, etc, in the two cars through the woods after the shootout at the lodge, how did Dillinger and the other guy (sorry, didnt get his name) wind up escaped with Dillinger getting his arm worked on? It looked like all the bad guys ran out of the cars and got mowed down. What did I miss?

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

I didnt want to start a new thread when there were old ones about this movie.

I finally saw it just now. I thought it was a really good movie. I enjoyed it very much.

I have a question. In the scene when the feds are chasing Dillinger, Nelson, etc, in the two cars through the woods after the shootout at the lodge, how did Dillinger and the other guy (sorry, didnt get his name) wind up escaped with Dillinger getting his arm worked on? It looked like all the bad guys ran out of the cars and got mowed down. What did I miss?

Just the lapse in continuity. :eusa_doh:
I think Nelson was killed some time after all that, after Dillinger was killed actually.
Although the circumstances of Nelson's death were portrayed similarly, they happened about 6 months later.

 

[scottyrocks]

Just the lapse in continuity. :eusa_doh:
I think Nelson was killed some time after all that, after Dillinger was killed actually.
Although the circumstances of Nelson's death were portrayed similarly, they happened about 6 months later.

Thanks, but thats not what I was getting at. In the movie itself, it looked like everyone was mowed down running from the car. And even if they werent, how did Dillinger and his buddy wind up in a room or a car in the very next scene, apparently safe from Purvis' feds that had the place covered.

 

[MikeBravo]

I prefer to carry my roscoe under a folded-over newspaper a la Jack "Legs" Diamond; one of my absolute favourite gangster movies. The Rise and Fall of Legs Diamond

The issue with guns in coat pockets is you might end up like the "gunsel" Wilmer in 'The Maltese Falcon' where Sam Spade pulls his coat down over his arms and takes his guns away from him. Very embarassing.

 

[MikeBravo]

An interesting note about the word "gunsel" that I just discovered.

The derivation of the word is gunsel/gonsil/ gonzel/ gonsel: A 19th century term of German and Yiddish (little goose) derivation for a young, inexperienced gay male.

"The latter usage — a gun-toting hoodlum — derives from Dashiell Hammett’s The Maltese Falcon. Hammett’s publisher at the time refused to allow any rude or profane terminology in his publication. Hammett slipped in “gunsel” — a street term for a young, gay man — as a joke. Since it is used throughout the book to refer to the character of Wilmer — a gun-toting thug — most people erroneously assumed that is what it meant and it stuck."

 

[skytop]

Never knew that Cagney actually had a CCW (concealed carry weapon license) and that he liked using a pocket holster! Always learning....

 

[martinsantos]

Here in São Paulo City we had a criminal in 40s and 50s called Hiroito Joanides. His "business" were drugs, prostitution and protection for little criminals.

After, in jail, he became a good writer. His autobiography is very interesting. And with plenty of details and photos (all took from the crime newspapers from the time). Unhappilly, when an old man, he turned again to drug dealing - but died before the end of the procedings.

He never used a 45. Usually a typical gun for cities were the 32, and do did this guy. Because movies he started to use it in the soulder, but usualy at the suit's pocket.