Pre-1930s neckties

[Dinerman]

Show us the really old ones in your collection.

To get the ball rolling:

Selvedge edge on front blade, as opposed to the usual stitched edge on 1930s ties.


Same selvedge edge as first tie.


Same selvedge edge


Another selvedge edge. Slip Easy neckband.




1929

 

[Dinerman]

Spiderweb. Puresilk Spungold. 1908


India Print. Puresilk. 1915


Portuguese Crepe. Puresilk. 1915


Roman Stripes. Puresilk. 1916


Persians. Puresilk. 1916


Easter Lillies. Puresilk. 1917

 

[Dinerman]

Lakeside Varsity. 1920


1919


1919


Cheney. 1916


Cheney. 1917

 

[Dinerman]

1908 Carter and Holmes


Patterns. 1922


Patterns. 1916


Patterns. 1917


Designs. 1922


Designs. 1922


Designs. 1922

 

[esteban68]

fantastic thread DM...I covet the spidersweb one, sadly nothing to offer as pre 1930's are a bit thin on the ground over here certainly around my stomping ground!

 

[herringbonekid]

i must admit, i find ties from the teens all the way through to the early 30s very difficult to date accurately, because styles changed so little.
i bought a batch of deadstock French ties last year, some of which have a selvedge lower edge, e.g:

...they could be anywhere in the teens - early 30s time span. how do you tell ?

i've also bought many ties from the US as '1920s' when they could be earlier or later. i don't think i've posted any photos of them.

 

[DamianM]

I considered the unlined ties in brocades to be 30 and before.

 

[Two Types]

I also find early ties difficult to date. Does anyone know roughly when the standard lengths change?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

It is, of course, very difficult to date early ties accurately. Many 20s ties could very easily be from the 30s, or even throwbacks from the teens. I've always thought that the neck band of silk/whatever you see in a few of Dinerman's ties above was a good hint at an older tie.

One thing to look for is resilient construction. Not the little label, check the construction of the tie. By the late 20s, EVERYONE was making their ties on resilient lines. It really was a great lea forward in tie design (there's a reason we still use resilient construction today! Only the later 4-fold ties break the rule in mass produced ties. That neck strip is a good indicator that the tie is not "resilient".

This Moire one, for example, is not built on the resilient model.

 

[herringbonekid]

this is the type of U.S. tie i'm talking about:

...all bought as '20s', but are they early 20s or late 20s-30s ?
one is labelled 'resilient construction'. none of them have neck bands.

Baron, i'm not sure what this 'resilient construction' method is you're referring to.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

You mean you haven't read my article in The Chap? How dare you!

It's a patented method of cutting the panels for the tie and constructing the interlinings to allow the tie to stretch when being tied and prevent the very common ripping of the day. That "resilient construction" label indicates that the tie was made using the method, and royalties paid to the "inventor". After the late 20s, pretty much every tie was built using the method as it proved so successful at preventing ripping/seam breakage. The same methods are used to this day.

You'll see most 30s ties made of 2 or sometimes 3 panels, cut on the bias. About 2/3 of the way from the fat end, on the rear, you'll see a diagonal seam where the panels are attached. This is the fundamental basis of the patent (astonishingly). It was essentially a codification of many of the features of standard, though by no means universal, tie construction.

I would say that all those ones you've shown above are from the 30s, but I have no evidence for it. Certainly you don't see the resilient construction label before the late 20s.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

A tip for Londoners, that one of the military vendors in the little arcade at Angel has a bunch of early ties, most appear to be French, with neck bands, selvedge like those above, very short. Sadly he wants £15 each, which I'm unprepared to pay. I wrangled him down to £10 for a 1940s Charvet print tie. He also has a relatively nice 30s/40s herringbone overcoat in.

This pretied Dutch one I think is an early tie:

And this National Shirt Shops tie has a silk neck band.

 

[herringbonekid]

Baron, every tie i have - that might be 20s - has some sort of bias seam on the rear. which puts their '20s' date in doubt.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

No, it doesn't put the date in doubt. I meant to suggest that the absence of such construction should be taken as a solid sign that a tie is early (after the middle to late 20s, EVERYONE was using resilient construction, even if they didn't label it as such).

But i don't mean to say that the presence of this should be seen as a sign that a tie is not early.

 

[herringbonekid]

ok, i think i get it. this one HAS to be 20s going by the design and label:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Agreed. I love the Idea of using labels - see the Croff one I posted above - for dating … but obviously labels were printed/woven in large runs and used 'til they were used up, especially store labels.

I love that store name, btw. The idea of someone's surname being "Stripling" is fantastic!

 

[herringbonekid]

in that case, since construction AND labels aren't always reliable, we should be focussing on the designs and weaves instead for dating.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yeah, sure, but you know how designs go through trends and are reworked and repeated decade after decade. Most tie designs and weaves, from any era, are so generic and conservative as to be indistinguishable. There will, of course, be a very few that could only have come from a certain period.

I would say, though, that a non-resilient construction is a pretty reliable guide to a 1920s or earlier tie: If it's not resilient, it's almost without a doubt from before the late 20s.

 

[Dinerman]

Clip ons for stiff collars. They attach to the collar stud. The one which isn't a clip on is pre-tied, with a piece of metal inside the short end so that it can be threaded through the knot. All the ties have the back blade sewn at an angle from the front, so that it is visible when worn.







This style was popular before WWI. Here is an ad for one from 1908. It's worthy of note that the one in the ad is pre-tied with the front blade shorter than the back. Another one of those sartorial rules which didn't come about until later.

 

[Qirrel]

You mean you haven't read my article in The Chap? How dare you!
You'll see most 30s ties made of 2 or sometimes 3 panels, cut on the bias. About 2/3 of the way from the fat end, on the rear, you'll see a diagonal seam where the panels are attached. This is the fundamental basis of the patent (astonishingly). It was essentially a codification of many of the features of standard, though by no means universal, tie construction.

What does the seam have to do with the "resiliency" of the construction?