Parade's End

[Hemingway Jones]

Parade's End is an adaptation by Tom Stoppard of four Ford Maddox Ford novels that cover the collapse of Edwardian Society through an analogy of a failed marriage. It stars Benedict Cumberbatch, who I think is wonderful in everything and Rebecca Hall as his beguiling, but unfaithful wife. The consequences of their bad marriage are far reaching and yet all is not lost by the end. Some enjoyable black humor runs through it to keep things lofty.

Has any one else watched it?

 

[Worf]

Parade's End is an adaptation by Tom Stoppard of four Ford Maddox Ford novels that cover the collapse of Edwardian Society through an analogy of a failed marriage. It stars Benedict Cumberbatch, who I think is wonderful in everything and Rebecca Hall as his beguiling, but unfaithful wife. The consequences of their bad marriage are far reaching and yet all is not lost by the end. Some enjoyable black humor runs through it to keep things lofty.

Has any one else watched it?

It was thoroughly discussed here when it first aired months ago. While I found the story "interesting" I never felt for the protagonist. So bound by all these arbitrary rules of his own making I had little or no empathy for him. His infuriating wife and her machinations made me want to shoot the screen. And slooooooow.... but not slooow enough if you get my meaning. Lots of gazing and looking and talking and not much doing till the Germans decided to start shooting. I re-watched the last two episodes but that's all I can stomach.

Worf

 

[Hemingway Jones]

It was thoroughly discussed here when it first aired months ago. While I found the story "interesting" I never felt for the protagonist. So bound by all these arbitrary rules of his own making I had little or no empathy for him. His infuriating wife and her machinations made me want to shoot the screen. And slooooooow.... but not slooow enough if you get my meaning. Lots of gazing and looking and talking and not much doing till the Germans decided to start shooting. I re-watched the last two episodes but that's all I can stomach.

Worf

Interesting how a modern audience cannot relate to someone whose actions are dictated by decorum and duty; not so much by his own making but crafted from the traditions of a bygone age, or receding age at any event. Hmm, could be some ironies there... That may have been Ford's point all along. He certainly chose a protagonist at the extreme of the type; more so for the impact of the disintegration.
There were some problems with direction. Third act trench scenes carrying into the fourth; that sort of thing, but I commend any modern bit of story-telling that takes its time to develop things. "Broadchurch" is a fantastic example of this and a fantastic bit of story-telling.

 

[Fading Fast]

Interesting how a modern audience cannot relate to someone whose actions are dictated by decorum and duty; not so much by his own making but crafted from the traditions of a bygone age, or receding age at any event. Hmm, could be some ironies there... That may have been Ford's point all along. He certainly chose a protagonist at the extreme of the type; more so for the impact of the disintegration.
There were some problems with direction. Third act trench scenes carrying into the fourth; that sort of thing, but I commend any modern bit of story-telling that takes its time to develop things. "Broadchurch" is a fantastic example of this and a fantastic bit of story-telling.

I found I respected how hard Tietjens tries to live by and up to a code of honor, but I did see him as dated because today we expect each person to be driven and guided by a large degree of individual motivation and self-council - for better or worse. And yes, Rebecca Hall is wonderful. You might enjoy her in the movie "The Awakending," a not-silly supernatural tale set in early 1920s England (and beautifully filmed).

 

[Worf]

Yeah I get that as the General said Tietjens had fought the fight to the last round and the last man but I could not imagine anyone being that self sacrificing. I had similar problems with Scorcese's "Age of Innocence". There we had yet another man cowed by societal dictates to the point where he can't even marry the woman he loves. All this at a time where 5 or 6 States to the West men and women were carving out empires with their bare hands. There are enough real barriers to happiness in life without bowing to arbitrary ones. Can you say with certainty that society AS A WHOLE, not just the ruling class, was better off when these customs and rules were applied and enforced?

Worf

 

[Fading Fast]

Yeah I get that as the General said Tietjens had fought the fight to the last round and the last man but I could not imagine anyone being that self sacrificing. I had similar problems with Scorcese's "Age of Innocence". There we had yet another man cowed by societal dictates to the point where he can't even marry the woman he loves. All this at a time where 5 or 6 States to the West men and women were carving out empires with their bare hands. There are enough real barriers to happiness in life without bowing to arbitrary ones. Can you say with certainty that society AS A WHOLE, not just the ruling class, was better off when these customs and rules were applied and enforced?

Worf

I do not think society or any class was / is / or will be better off with overly punctilious rules of decorum that are illogical, arbitrary or, worse, designed to advance one group's opportunity (some of these rules were intended to protect unmarried women, others to keep them down, etc.) at the expense of another. As you said, happiness is hard enough to find without having to traverse a manmade and silly obstacle course to get there.

However, I do wish we, as a society - not class and (absolutely) not by government - just as a society, enforced through social norms a greater respect for others and greater respect for common decency and honoring one's word. There was an integrity and common decency to those honor-bound and buttoned up societies that we have lost when we tossed their entire architecture out (in the 1960s). When I give my word or shake a hand on a deal, that means to me the same thing as if I had signed a contract with witnesses and there are many others who feel that way, but it is not the norm in our society anymore; whereas, my father used to tell me that your word truly was your bond when he grew up and if you lost that, you were shunned by society. Just and example (and I'm sure it wasn't perfect), but some societal rules (enforced by the free will of all participants - no ruling body) would make us more decent, more respectful of others.

Miley Cyrus' recent performance was crass, ,tasteless and oddly more angry than even cheaply sexual, but that is another example of something that I wish society said no to. It is her right, and I'd defend that right with my life, for performers to do what they want, but what if she found that people didn't want to associate with that behavior because it was crass and bad for business because the public wouldn't buy her songs, etc. Again - not censorship - just society saying we, of our free will, do not want this behavior. That's is something we lost when we tossed out the old rules.

 

[Worf]

I do not think society or any class was / is / or will be better off with overly punctilious rules of decorum that are illogical, arbitrary or, worse, designed to advance one group's opportunity (some of these rules were intended to protect unmarried women, others to keep them down, etc.) at the expense of another. As you said, happiness is hard enough to find without having to traverse a manmade and silly obstacle course to get there.

However, I do wish we, as a society - not class and (absolutely) not by government - just as a society, enforced through social norms a greater respect for others and greater respect for common decency and honoring one's word. There was an integrity and common decency to those honor-bound and buttoned up societies that we have lost when we tossed their entire architecture out (in the 1960s). When I give my word or shake a hand on a deal, that means to me the same thing as if I had signed a contract with witnesses and there are many others who feel that way, but it is not the norm in our society anymore; whereas, my father used to tell me that your word truly was your bond when he grew up and if you lost that, you were shunned by society. Just and example (and I'm sure it wasn't perfect), but some societal rules (enforced by the free will of all participants - no ruling body) would make us more decent, more respectful of others.

Miley Cyrus' recent performance was crass, ,tasteless and oddly more angry than even cheaply sexual, but that is another example of something that I wish society said no to. It is her right, and I'd defend that right with my life, for performers to do what they want, but what if she found that people didn't want to associate with that behavior because it was crass and bad for business because the public wouldn't buy her songs, etc. Again - not censorship - just society saying we, of our free will, do not want this behavior. That's is something we lost when we tossed out the old rules.

You didn't say a thing I can find fault with. Unfortunately we may have thrown he baby out with the bath water. Just as unfortunate however was the manner in which "societal norms" were used for evil and oppression. Trust me I know. I lived through the late 50's, 60's and right up through the roller coaster we're on now. Have we lost more than we gained by throwing away convention? I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer that. But it is an age old question. I'm sure they were asking it in every Empire that has ever existed as the inevitable rot and decay began eating away at its entrails. God I'm in an awful mood.

Worf

 

[Metatron]

Good thread.
You have eloquently expressed some things I have been pondering myself.
While I would hate to live in a stuffy, tradition bound society,
I do feel that today, a sort of jaded, narcissistic, every man for himself type of mentality prevails that is bad for 'societal moral' as it were.

However, I suspect that it was always the case, but simply hiding behind 'good manners'.
For example while everyone was busy bombing, machine-gunning, hanging, raping each other in World war two, the F word was probably never once heard on the radio, at the cinema, or printed.
It was completely acceptable on a national scale to horrendous things while the F word was out of the question.
Perhaps we are more honest about how grotesque we are now?