Pairing Off -- Split from Romantic Gestures

[Rosie]

Well, I'm not sure about viewing someone who has a girlfriend as eligible. Any person that I've called my boyfriend was someone that I was dating hoping that the end result would be marriage. In order to get to the point where one would want to marry another person, you have to spend time with them, have a courtship and see how things progress from that point. Any time I have been in a relationship I have considered myself and my partner off limits because we were working towards a more permanent relationship (well, I was but that's an entirely different topic). I didn't consider myself looking for something better, I was building the foundations for what I thought would be a lifelong union. If I came across someone, and I have, that I dug and they were seeing someone else, I would consider them off limits and move on.

 

[Etienne]

I think that a marriage vow implies "forsaking all others" and demonstrates that the man and woman are embarking upon building something new--a union that will be the foundation of their family. Love is a decision, among other things; it demands commitment, trust, loyalty, mutual effort, respect and focusing on the goal of what you are building together. By making that public vow, the couple seeks the support of those present to witness that declaration and encourage the couple to uphold it. I think living together is playing house...(I'm sure this is quite a non PC view, but it is mine, nonetheless.)

 

[Elaina]

You know, I was once a single woman. I dated alot. Alot, lot. I had men I dated, and enjoyed their company, and to my shame, men I dated that provided a free meal (not to be confused with promiscuity which I never was). I had a few boyfriends. Some level of commitment (much like, I like you enough to go to the computer store, again, and not complain too loudly). I don't think I dated, had a level of some kind of commitment, with the intent to marry.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't we go through a series of boyfriends to find out what we desire in a partner and find ourselves and to learn about that aspect of ourselves? I know it's hard to do that if you're dating, oh, 5 guys. It's easier with one, then just seeing where it goes.

Admittedly I like nerds. Most of them men I've dated were nerds (and I'm talking they could've had a role on the Revenge of series) I didn't run into this particular "Can I hit on you if you're dating him?" (I actually ran into the "oh my god, is a girl really talking to me?")

I think there's women like I was that if you hit on me and I was dating someone at the time, I was like "Oh well, right now I'm dating Bob, let's be friends" but I was very casual about dating until I actually got about 3 months into my relationship with my first husband, before we got married, but about a month before we got engaged. I also think there are women on the other end that date, commit, and plan the wedding in the first 2 minutes of the very first date. Depends on the guy who'd like to get to know the woman, and the woman herself. Eligibility is a frame of mind, in my opinion. Until I got to the point of dating exclusivity, I had no problems flirting seriously with a guy (them not knowing what to DO about it is a different subject). If the woman is casual about it whilst trying to find herself, then go for it. If she's one of these that she wants to be married, then I would step back a bit from her.

 

[herringbonekid]

Any time I have been in a relationship I have considered myself and my partner off limits because we were working towards a more permanent relationship (well, I was but that's an entirely different topic). I didn't consider myself looking for something better, I was building the foundations for what I thought would be a lifelong union. If I came across someone, and I have, that I dug and they were seeing someone else, I would consider them off limits and move on.

that's exactly my way of thinking too. frankly, trying to steal someone's partner from under the other's nose is just rude.

 

[LizzieMaine]

that's exactly my way of thinking too. frankly, trying to steal someone's partner from under the other's nose is just rude.

Exactly. Seems to me that if someone is willing to play the love-pirate before marriage they'd be just as liable to do it afterward. Romance may be all about the thrill of the hunt and the chase for some, but I don't see that as the foundation for any kind of a solid relationship.

 

[Senator Jack]

I know it has a lot to do with insecurity, but I could never understand why both men and women have a problem with the occassional double-take. You see an attractive man or woman, your eye wanders a bit, and then you're in the doghouse. And okay, this may be objectifying people, but I like to think of it as this way: I may own a Rembrandt, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to look at a Warhol.

Anyway, after a 14 year relationship, (and no, it didn't end because of wandering eye) I'm just starting to date again, and I'm realizing that people really don't date any more. They seem to go out on a date or two and suddenly they're in a relationship or expect to be in one. In fact, I'm starting to think women are expecting me to bring an engagement ring on our first date. Whatever happened to occassional dating? You go out and enjoy yourselves not for the prospect of settling down, but just to enjoy each other's company for a few hours. Perhaps two weeks later you go on another one. In the meantime, you have dinner with someone else. I don't see this as being a player, I just see it as adults getting to know each other before real emotional attachment develops.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Rosie]

Anyway, after a 14 year relationship, (and no, it didn't end because of wandering eye) I'm just starting to date again, and I'm realizing that people really don't date any more. They seem to go out on a date or two and suddenly they're in a relationship or expect to be in one. In fact, I'm starting to think women are expecting me to bring an engagement ring on our first date. Whatever happened to occassional dating? You go out and enjoy yourselves not for the prospect of settling down, but just to enjoy each other's company for a few hours. Perhaps two weeks later you go on another one. In the meantime, you have dinner with someone else. I don't see this as being a player, I just see it as adults getting to know each other before real emotional attachment develops.

Regards,

Senator Jack

In the beginning when I am just getting to know someone, this is acceptable. I think when two people discuss seeing one another exclusively, the whole boyfriend/girfriend thing kicks in. I've found that many people don't like to do this though. I went out with a guy twice, 2 TIMES and he was angry when I wasn't available when he wanted to go out again, so angry that he told me something to the effect of, "you're not serious about finding someone, I want out". Okay, take care. The most recent guy that I've been seeing, less than a month expressed an idea like this the other day, something to the effect of, "hope you're not seeing someone else". Mind you, we've only been out about 4 times. [huh]

 

[scotrace]

I know it has a lot to do with insecurity, but I could never understand why both men and women have a problem with the occassional double-take. You see an attractive man or woman, your eye wanders a bit, and then you're in the doghouse. And okay, this may be objectifying people, but I like to think of it as this way: I may own a Rembrandt, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to look at a Warhol.

Anyway, after a 14 year relationship, (and no, it didn't end because of wandering eye) I'm just starting to date again, and I'm realizing that people really don't date any more. They seem to go out on a date or two and suddenly they're in a relationship or expect to be in one. In fact, I'm starting to think women are expecting me to bring an engagement ring on our first date. Whatever happened to occassional dating? You go out and enjoy yourselves not for the prospect of settling down, but just to enjoy each other's company for a few hours. Perhaps two weeks later you go on another one. In the meantime, you have dinner with someone else. I don't see this as being a player, I just see it as adults getting to know each other before real emotional attachment develops.

Regards,

Senator Jack

You're a good looking chap, with charm, and out of the foolish young years. They simply want to get their deposits in on you quickly before a higher bidder appears!

I'm allowed to look. It's dumb to not permit each other to comment on others. In fact, we usually point them out to each other.
Me: Wow, he was good looking. Did you see that?
Her: Of course. But you're better. And I doubt he could fix the car.

Or just as often -
Her: Did you see that woman? Yeesh. I hope you'd tell me if I looked that bad before we left the house!
Me: Of course I would. Unless I felt like giving our friends a giggle.

 

[Senator Jack]

Hah, thanks, Scotrace. I guess I should take up with the first one that would allow herself to be seen with a man in a bowler. That would be the real test.

 

[Caledonia]

It is an action entirely without honour, even if it is ecologically sound, to try and take another's girl/boyfriend, husband/wife/partner. You wait and watch and if they become single you make your move. However, if, from inside their relationship, they nod in your direction, then I think it is reasonable to endeavour to find out how they feel. But to then become involved with them while they are still in the relationship - no. It is shamefully hurtful to the other partner when they find out, and demeaning to you. I mean, who really wants to be a bit on the side. Ok, so a lot of folk do. It's exciting, the danger factor of trying not to get caught. But in the end it's just not polite!

And for definitions - dating is just that, going on dates without commitment. Boyfriend/girlfriend is a commitment to be with each other for as long as it's fun and it might end up in marriage (and some couples agree to date other people too, and why can't they do it that way - the point is it has to be out in the open and honest). Marriage is committing to be with the other (with or without a ceremony of any kind) with the intent that it is long-term, supportive, and will be weathered through some storms rather than throwing it out with the bath water so to speak. And I don't think you have to live with each other to be married, or to not see other people, or the miriad other ways people are together. The point is to love the other person for who they are, and to be honest, truthful, supportive, and to let and help them live the best life they can find. Sometimes friends are more married than some married couples. And you shouldn't try to steal somebody's friend either!

Hope I kept somewhat on topic - it is a bit of a confusing thread.

 

[RetroModelSari]

Just cause I go out and spend time with someone I´m not his girlfriend. I´ve been spending loads of time with guys I wouldn´t consider as boyfriend. I admit in the past I sort of played with the guys that thought they were the big deal heartbreakers, but that was more a "look and don´t touch" thing. I allways told them from the start they´ll never gonna have me. I found it damn amusing to observe them how they tried to get me drunk and how they tried to convince me what a great deal they are and how many women they had and such a bla bla... lol For them that might had date-character - for me it was a fun thing and I was honest all the time

When I spend time with someone and sooner and later it comes to Sex than that´s the point where the guy is my boyfriend (if he doesn´t run away afterwards - but that never happened). From about that time on I have no eye for another man and don´t even consider playing with the bigmouths any more. I´m faithfull to the bone and I´m one of those women that thinks about geting married with the one she loves from the start ;-)

 

[Marc Chevalier]

It is an action entirely without honour, even if it is ecologically sound, to try and take another's girl/boyfriend, husband/wife/partner. You wait and watch and if they become single you make your move.

I think that this is a "me Tarzan, you Jane" use of the word "take". You aren't "taking" another human being; you're simply presenting yourself as a potential suitor. It is up to the other person to decide whether or not to take you up on it. If anything, it is you who hopes to be taken; it is other person who can do the taking, if she/he so chooses. And if the nod is then given in your direction, then was it "wrong" of you to have presented yourself? I think not.


As for "waiting and watching if they become single before you make your move", well ... this is a luxury not in keeping with our short and uncertain lives. It leaves our happiness too much at the mercy of fickle fortune.

But to then become involved with them while they are still in the relationship - no.

Absolutely right. I said as much earlier in this thread.



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[Paisley]

As a wise old friend once told me, if you're able to get someone away from his girlfriend pretty easily, someone else can get him away from you, too, just as easily.

And you'd know that he's probably willing to string you along until he can upgrade to someone else, because he did it to his last girlfriend.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

As a wise old friend once told me, if you're able to get someone away from his girlfriend pretty easily, someone else can get him away from you, too, just as easily.

"Pretty easily"? Who said that it's easy? As I said before, soul-searching is required from the person who has the boyfriend/girlfriend. And the chances are great that the suitor will find himself/herself rejected. There's nothing easy about that, even though no one's ever died from it.


This kind of thinking -- that "someone else can get him away from you, too" -- gives no credit to the fact that you are a unique person with qualities that someone might really, truly value more than the qualities of their present boyfriend/girlfriend. Just because a person leaves her/his partner to be with you, does NOT mean that you're not good enough to keep her/him afterward. This is self-derogatory thinking.


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[scotrace]

.

If a woman I had an interest in had a boyfriend, and I knew they were dating each other exclusively, I would not present myself to her as an alternative UNLESS there were clear indications that she was unhappy and did not plan to remain in the relationship. Even then, the situation would call for great tact, discretion and no small amount of self-deprecating charm. Otherwise a gentleman could easily come off as a Textbook Jackass.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

If a woman I had an interest in had a boyfriend, and I knew they were dating each other exclusively, I would not present myself to her as an alternative UNLESS there were clear indications that she was unhappy and did not plan to remain in the relationship.

Sensitive and wise thinking. As such, there is less risk of discomforting her, and you also have a better chance of reciprocation. It does beg the question, though: what are "clear indications" of unhappiness in a relationship? And if she "does not plan to remain" in it, why hasn't she left it already?

Even then, the situation would call for great tact, discretion and no small amount of self-deprecating charm. Otherwise a gentleman could easily come off as a Textbook Jackass.

Yes indeed. Very true.

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[maintcoder]

Otherwise a gentleman could easily come off as a Textbook Jackass.

Wouldn't this be a definition of a 'cad'? (1. an ill-bred man, esp. one who behaves in a dishonorable or irresponsible way toward women.)

 

[Marc Chevalier]

'Boor' is more like it. ("A rude or insensitive person.")

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[Caledonia]

People hang on in relationships for all sorts of reasons when really they should move on. It's unrealistic to think that the majority of people can analyse their situation clearly and surgically and be in or out of it with precision. That's emotions for you, and that's why affairs happen, and why people leave for the newly presenting suitor, only to find that they gave up the best thing and can't get it back, or various scenarios of that ilk. And people do "take" other people's partners. It's called getting what you want whether you actually want it for long or not. And it's done in a lot of ways, which I'm sure I don't have to list. Of course it would be a better and probably more romantic world if seeking your partner was a matter of etiquette centred rules with a generous dash of daring do. But the world of emotion isn't like that. Obtaining a partner is first of all a base instinct, and left at that level we wouldn't be in committed relationships past the chemistry bit, and we would be making eyes at anyone that took our fancy. But we've gone past that, and while the concept of politely but determinedly finding your best partner and giving him or her the opportunity to release themselves from a sub-optimal relationship is really quite groovy, most of us don't deal rationally with emotion and emotional pain when we're in the depths of it, and have to deal with our own insecurities to boot. Great romances do come out of a brave but possibly not approved of step, but so do great tragedies. In the end, if someone thinks they can get away with putting the moves on someone in a relationship, they will. The outcome is unpredictable. As anybody currently listening to The Archers on BBC Radio 4 will know!

 

[Lauren]

It's a strange limbo- relationships. It's just further proof that you need two whole people to make a healthy relationship. Before I figured this out an ex-boyfriend of mine suggested I go read "the Missing Piece Meets the Big O" by Shel Silverstein. I thought, "great, he wants me to go reads a kid's book. He must think I'm dumb," but really, it's a cute little book with a good lesson and if you happen to be in a bookstore I suggest everyone go leaf through it.

I guess the thing is that no one is perfect- you have to come to terms with your strengths and weaknesses, strive to make strengths of the weaknesses, and have a decently broad outlook and the ability to admit defeat. It's not looking down on yourself of trying to have a low self esteem, but an accurate and honest view of yourself (as much as you can get, anyway- we as humans are ridiculously self-centered and self-serving creatures even when we think we're not). And gosh, patience, too. Patiences is more than a virtue, it's a neccessity- both with yourself and your partner.

I agree that once you're in a serious dating relationship that it would suck to have someone come along and "steal" your mate, but the thing is- wouldn't you rather have someone who'd stick it out with you rather than someone who's looking at greener pastures? If he or she is contemplating leaving then maybe it's better if they do and leave you to find someone better suited.