Pairing Off -- Split from Romantic Gestures

[Marc Chevalier]

Over the years I knew she was seeing other guys, so I kept quiet about my feelings ...

And that was your problem. Sitting around, waiting for an (unnmarried) woman to be single before you pursue her is foolish. Pursue away, with grace and tact; if she concludes that you're better than her current boyfriend, then bully for you! And if she doesn't, then no harm's been done: you (lightly) put out feelers, she considers and passes on the idea, and life goes on for the both of you.


Women with boyfriends (and vice-versa) aren't married to them. The commitment is tenuous at best: it says, "I'm with you unless and until someone better for me comes along." If someone better does appear, a girlfriend (or boyfriend) can, should, and usually will move on to the better person. There's no reason why that better person can't be you!


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[Lauren]

Adding to above... don't be a creep about it- if she says no, she means it. I wouldn't press the issue more than twice. Personally, if I'm in a relationship and I'm even humouring the idea of another guy I know the relationship is over. There's no point in a girl being with one guy and wishing she was with another- if you're dating her and she's still got a boyfriend there's obviously an emotional attachment she's not going to give up and you're setting all three of you up for severe heartbreak.]

And I know I shouldn't have to say it, but leave the married women well alone. They've already made their choice.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Adding to above... don't be a creep about it- if she says no, she means it.

I agree. Take no for an answer. But at least have the guts to ask! (With grace and tact, of course.)

There's no point in a girl being with one guy and wishing she was with another.

True. But look at it another way. If an unmarried girl is with one guy, and another guy thinks that maybe he would be a better guy for the girl, then why shouldn't he offer the girl a chance to choose him and to leave the other? All he has to do is leave a hint that he's available for her if she so chooses.

If you're dating her and she's still got a boyfriend there's obviously an emotional attachment.

But that's not what I'm suggesting. If she starts dating Hondo (or whoever) and doesn't then break up with her boyfriend, then that's bad. If, however, she gives Hondo a chance, goes out for a coffee with him, decides that he offers more than her present boyfriend does, and then leaves the boyfriend ... well, that's perfectly fine, and it makes good sense. Indeed, it's how most men and women end up together.

Leave the married women well alone. They've already made their choice.

Absolutely right. My words refer to unmarried men and women, and only to them.



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[Lauren]

Oh, I agree, Marc I was just adding a little bit from a gal's point of view

 

[herringbonekid]

wow, it's a wonder you americans aren't nervous wrecks ! every time you see your partner chatting to someone of the opposite sex you think "uh oh, my time's up" ? i like to think that whoever i'm with is with me because they're in love with me and not just using me as filler until the next best offer comes along. those kind of thoughts i really don't need.

i think dating etiquette is different in england. generally you just ASSUME a couple are happy unless you know specifically otherwise. and if you're thinking of intervening you'd better be VERY discreet about it or you may end up with some large dental bills.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I like to think that whoever I'm with is with me because they're in love with me ...

Sure. As long as you two are unmarried (or are not official "life partners"), then she's with you because she's in love with you -- for now. Nothing else can stop her or you from saying bye-bye. Why? Because as girlfriend and boyfriend, you don't have a commitment to stay together beyond today and maybe the near future.


What does it mean to be a boyfriend or girlfriend, anyway? It means, "For the moment, I enjoy being with you more than with others, so I'm not with them right now. Maybe this will lead to a marriage proposal or an official life partnership commitment, and maybe it won't. No rule says that it must." No timeline is given. No commitment to the future is made; there's only an implied possibility that such a commitment might be made -- someday.


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[Lauren]

wow, it's a wonder you americans aren't nervous wrecks ! every time you see your partner chatting to someone of the opposite sex you think "uh oh, my time's up" ? i like to think that whoever i'm with is with me because they're in love with me and not just using me as filler until the next best offer comes along. those kind of thoughts i really don't need.

i think dating etiquette is different in england. generally you just ASSUME a couple are happy unless you know specifically otherwise. and if you're thinking of intervening you'd better be VERY discreet about it or you may end up with some large dental bills.

Well, like I said, I'm not the kind what would be dating someone if I'm even thinking someone else might be better, but I know a lot of people who are... One of my things I've had as an agreement with all my boyfriends is if we ever get to the point where we couldn't see the other person as someone we could potentially marry, we break it off. When I'm in a relationship I'm in it 100%.

 

[herringbonekid]

... Because as girlfriend and boyfriend, you don't have a commitment to stay together beyond today and maybe the near future.
... No timeline is given. No commitment to the future is made or even implied.
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all true, but unless i enter into a relationship saying "hey this is just casual and a bit of fun" (which i haven't and don't intend to) then i expect more than that. i expect a certain level of commitment. but then i personally don't think that marriage means that a couple will be committed either. married people have affairs and get divorced. so where's the security ?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I'm not the kind what would be dating someone if I'm even thinking someone else might be better ...

As long as our boyfriend/girlfriend seems to be "the one" for us, we certainly don't think that way. But then, if someone better does come along and shows interest in us, then we shouldn't pretend that things are as they were. A choice must now be made ... and in my view, it's unhealthy and wrong to not choose the better person.


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[Marc Chevalier]

I personally don't think that marriage means that a couple will be committed either. married people have affairs and get divorced. so where's the security ?

When married people have affairs and get divorced, they cancel out a vow that they made to each other. Marriage is a contract in which two people say that they want, intend, and will try their very best to stay exclusively together until death. No such contract exists (or is even implied) within a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.


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[herringbonekid]

... and in my view, it's unhealthy and wrong to not choose the better person..

unfortunately if such 'grass is greener' descisions are made on little more than a chat over coffee and a few fluttering eyelashes, you may make the wrong choice and regret it later.

( i did once, but that's another thread. :eusa_doh: )

 

[herringbonekid]

Marriage is a contract in which two people say that they want, intend, and will try their very best to stay exclusively together until death. No such contract exists (or is even implied) within a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.
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how very businesslike ! all i'm saying is that contracts get torn up. look at the divorce rate.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

unfortunately if such 'grass is greener' descisions are made on little more than a chat over coffee and a few fluttering eyelashes, you may make the wrong choice and regret it later.

Make it a few coffees, then.

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[Marc Chevalier]

All I'm saying is that contracts get torn up. look at the divorce rate.

Sure. But a contract indicates (or should indicate) a very strong commitment to abide by the promises made within it. Furthermore, it tells potential suitors that they don't (or shouldn't) stand a chance.


A boyfriend/girlfriend relationship doesn't have this contract. The resolve to stay together, through thick and thin, is equivocal at best. At most, it tells potential suitors that they'll have to be more appealing than the present boyfriend/girlfriend's partner is.


If you find this idea threatening, don't fret too much. There are steps you can take to help protect your (unmarried) relationship. Do the best you can to keep your boyfriend/girlfriend happy with you ... and show how much you are committed to your partner (and find out how much she/he is committed to you) by proposing marriage, preferably "with a ring and a date".



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[Lauren]

As long as our boyfriend/girlfriend seems to be "the one" for us, we certainly don't think that way. But then, if someone better does come along and shows interest in us, then we shouldn't pretend that things are as they were. A choice must now be made ... and in my view, it's unhealthy and wrong to not choose the better person.


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Totally agree, and I have been guilty of this in the past. There's a difference between being committed and just plain making wrong descisions for whatever psychological reason. The thing I've been learning over the past few years is that no matter how hard I try, if things don't work out, they don't work out. But you better be pretty darn sure that's you're not trying someone else out because you're just bored... like someone said earlier, there's a big difference between the feeling of being in love and actually loving someone, and it's really hard when tempted with feelings with someone else or when you're so clouded by feelings that you make wrong descisions and are with someone who is totally wrong for you.

We're off topic... maybe we should start a new thread?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

But you better be pretty darn sure that's you're not trying someone else out because you're just bored...

Yes indeed. You've got a choice to make, and it may well be a very hard one. Soul-searching is required. But no matter what, do not bury your head in the sand and pretend that there isn't a choice facing you. There is. You must do the hard work and make a decision, or you'll never learn and grow.


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[herringbonekid]

Furthermore, it tells potential suitors that they don't (or shouldn't) stand a chance.

the difference between don't and shouldn't could be quite vast.

as you said earlier...." in my view, it's unhealthy and wrong to not choose the better person"... but what if that better person comes along after you're married ? what do you do then ? just ignore it ? you've signed the business agreement, so you've stopped looking at the opposite sex, right ?

i'm not trying to legitamise inter-marrital affairs. i just don't think that marriage is such a strong establishment as people want to believe. and no stronger than a loving non-married relationship. but i can see we're not going to agree on this point.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The difference between don't and shouldn't could be quite vast.

Do you believe that marriages are not more committed than boyfriend/girlfriend relationships are?

As you said earlier...." in my view, it's unhealthy and wrong to not choose the better person"... but what if that better person comes along after you're married ? what do you do then ? just ignore it ?

That's precisely what you -- via your marriage vows -- have agreed to do. It's also precisely what society expects you to do. No potential suitor can look at a married person and think that she/he is fair game in the same way that an unmarried person can be.

You've signed the business agreement, so you've stopped looking at the opposite sex, right ?

More specifically, it's a life partnership agreement. And the point is not to stop looking at others -- it's to stop running off with them.


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[herringbonekid]

That's precisely what you -- via your marriage vows -- have agreed to do. It's also precisely what society expects you to do. .

that's evading the quesion. you said that it would be wrong not to go with the better person. so better to endure an unhappy marriage ?

 

[Feraud]

And the point is not to stop looking at others -- it's to stop running off with them.


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lol lol Correct!