Original AVG Bronco?

[Brettafett]

Stumbled across this and it piqued my interest.... I may be wrong, but didn't the Broncos come out after the AVGs were absorbed into the AAF? It looks genuine though.... Thoughts?

 

[aswatland]

Yes this Bronco dates from the late Spring of 1942 and is post AVG, but it just might have belonged to a former AVG pilot.

 

[Phantomfixer]

Did the 23rd FG and the 14th AF use the flying tiger patch in several variants, unofficial and official? I have talked with a few vet families stating their grand pa was a Flying Tiger...then find out they were in the 23rd or another squadron unit in the 14th AF...which technically is true, but not in the AVG.
Anyway Nice stumble upon...

 

[Stearmen]

AVG Personnel

I new a few former AVG pilots who unfortunately have passed away. The 23rd and 14th often claimed to be Flying Tigers and there was much infighting between the men. There were officially 100 pilots and 200 ground personnel. Although, there were a few unofficial members that Chennault awarded the little tiger through a V pin to. I know of a Canadian radio operator on loan from the RAF, and an Allison representative, plus I believe an RCA man!

 

[Phantomfixer]

Was Robert Smith, God is my Co-Pilot, among those?

 

[Stearmen]

Was Robert Smith, God is my Co-Pilot, among those?

Some considered him an honorary member, since he flew guest missions with the AVG. Though he never called himself a member! A real class act.

 

[newsboy]

Robert Smith was an original AVG Tiger, and one of it's leading aces. You are thinking about Robert Scott.

 

[Stearmen]

Robert Smith was an original AVG Tiger, and one of it's leading aces. You are thinking about Robert Scott.

Good catch! I new who he meant, just did not fully read the name. Speed reading, not speed comprehension!

 

[rocketeer]

Stumbled across this and it piqued my interest.... I may be wrong, but didn't the Broncos come out after the AVGs were absorbed into the AAF? It looks genuine though.... Thoughts?

Love the cropped off corners on the pockets, any other A2 makers have this feature?

 

[Stearmen]

Robert Smith was an original AVG Tiger, and one of it's leading aces. You are thinking about Robert Scott.

Not sure where my brain was, I actually new RT Smith! Robert through me off. A little trivia, during RTs primary training, his instructor on a couple of flights was Robert Scott and later in China, Scott flew initially as Smith's wing man. Shows you just how small the prewar Army Air Corp was. RT was very protective of the AVG legacy, he was constantly on the look out for those that tried to pass them selves off as members, even if they were legitimate veterans of the 23rd and 14th!

 

[Brettafett]

Love the cropped off corners on the pockets, any other A2 makers have this feature?

United Sheeplined?

 

[rocketeer]

United Sheeplined?

Courtesy thanks, I wont clog up the topic with irrelevant posts.

 

[Jaguar66]

Love the cropped off corners on the pockets, any other A2 makers have this feature?

The United Sheeplined had beveled pocket corners.


http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2images/un_pock.jpg

 

[aswatland]

Bronco A2s and United Sheeplined ones are remarkably similar being made by members of the Spiewak family. The shoulder seam on the United is centred under epaulet but is behind it on the Bronco.

 

[Brettafett]

Heres another, from the same source. It looks like it could be an Aero 3785 (pocket flap?), which would make sense, since the 3785 was from 1940... but obviously not sure.

 

[aswatland]

It's actually a Cable Raincoat A2.

 

[Brettafett]

It's actually a Cable Raincoat A2.

Thanks, what gives it away?

 

[aswatland]

I'm wondering why it could possibly be mistaken for an Aero in the first place when it has all the features of a Cable. You might find this website worth checking out for details of original A2s.

http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/index.shtml

 

[majormajor]

I'm wondering why it could possibly be mistaken for an Aero in the first place when it has all the features of a Cable. You might find this website worth checking out for details of original A2s.

http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/index.shtml

You are THE expert on these things Andrew, so just refering to the Acme Depot site doesn't really answer the question.

We can't see the label, we can't see the epaulets, we can't see the sleeve placement, we can't see the tops of the pockets, we can't see the zip, we can't see the lower zip reinforcement. The only thing we can see (in reference to Acme) is the collar, which should have round points - and it doesn't.

So please let us know why it is a Cable. Is it just the collar snap?

Thanks

 

[aswatland]

I would be interested to know why you think it's an Aero.

It's a Cable because it has the elongated box stitching on the epaulets-you can see from the side view where they are attached to the shoulder- nipple snaps (Wartime Aeros only had large ring snaps), rounded pocket bottom edges (most Aeros had almost square pocket bottoms)and angular pocket flaps. Most Cable Raincoat A2s from this, almost certainly the first late 1941 contract, were made from russet, spray finished hh and like this jacket areas of the top coat often show signs of wear, revealing lighter undertones. When you have handled many Cable A2s you can almost identify them from the leather alone!