Nutria Mania, part 2

[feltfan]

...or "It IS a @*$%> cowboy hat"

Okay, with this hat I'm a bit out of my depth. I'm hoping
some of you might be able to tell me more about this hat
and help me date it. Here it is:

In that first picture you can see the horsehair band and the
hole in the front of the crown where I removed (possibly temporarily)
a pin that was in the hat.

About that horsehair band... it sits on top of a tooled leather
band with what appears to be a silver buckle:

Here's the other side:

Here is a side view:

In those last two pictures, you can see the box in arrived in.
Appears to be the original box?

Top view:

Back view:

Store stamp on the sweat band:

Repeated on the front of the sweat:

And here's where it gets really interesting:

Yep, "clear nutria". The logo should look familiar. Here is the logo from
Douglas' favorite hat:

The logo on Douglas' hat looks older, but I find it an interesting
comparison. Of course the hats are quite different in style and
construction. My hat appears to be much heavier for one thing.
I did bash the crown to have a C and a dent, but it didn't seem
right, so I popped it back. That, BTW, is a big crown.

I have searched the site for information on clear nutria, but haven't
come up with much. In one post Art says he read it was the most
expensive felt Stetson ever sold. Jamespowers says he has one
(no big surprise there!) and posts some "before" pictures here:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=2082&page=2

I gather he's a bit busy now, but wonder if he ever had the hat
restored by Art? I do plan to send this one to Art, but just for
a slight size adjustment.

So who can tell me more about this hat? I absolutely love it,
but wish I could say whether it is a movie cowboy hat or a real
working hat, wish I knew more about the history of the horsehair
and leather bands, etc. I did order a copy of Ritch Rand's Cowboy
Hat Book, but it hasn't arrived yet. The Stetson book by Snyder
isn't a lot of help in dating hats. He has a picture of the Clear Nutria
logo, but simply says it would be helpful in dating the hat (but offers
no date). I know my pictures are inadequate, but I hope you enjoy this hat.

 

[indyguy]

Your looking at the hat that made john b stetson famous it was the first type of hat he made when he started making hats the model name is the boss of the plains they where popular from the 1860's to the turn of the twentieth century

 

[Dinerman]

I'd love to have a hat just like that.
I really like the look of the western pencil rolled brims.

 

[feltfan]

Your looking at the hat that made john b stetson famous it was the first type of hat he made when he started making hats the model name is the boss of the plains they where popular from the 1860's to the turn of the twentieth century

I should be so lucky. You can see the real Boss of the Plains here:

http://www.curtrich.com/hats.html

Mine does carry the "Boss" name, but it must be a much later hat.
So I guess it's like buying a Thunderbird today. It's not really the
same as the cars they sold under the name in the late 50s, but it
has the same name.

 

[DOUGLAS]

BOY O BOY !!!!! That hat is fantastic. That shackle curl is to die for. The sweat leather seems to be the same kind or type as mine. What a find:eusa_clap :eusa_clap. I am impressed and very happy someone else has this type of workmanship. I would say Thirties.Would ya look at that ....DAMN FINE.

 

[deanglen]

BOY O BOY !!!!! That hat is fantastic. That shackle curl is to die for. The sweat leather seems to be the same kind or type as mine. What a find:eusa_clap :eusa_clap. I am impressed and very happy someone else has this type of workmanship. I would say Thirties.Would ya look at that ....DAMN FINE.

Thought the same thing, the part about the 1930s, that is.

dean

 

[DOUGLAS]

Maybe we should have THE BOSS RAW EDGE CLUB.

 

[deanglen]

BOY O BOY !!!!! That hat is fantastic. That shackle curl is to die for.

Shackle curl? Is that different than a pencil roll?

dean

 

[DOUGLAS]

Yes,Deanglen As far as I know (which can be very little some times) a pencil curl closes into it's self ending in about the diameter of a pencil where as a shackle is not closed. There are other type of curls as well however their names escape me at this moment.

 

[Matt Deckard]

About that hat... WOW... I WANT THAT HAT!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Maybe we should have THE BOSS RAW EDGE CLUB.

I'll sign up!

.

 

[feltfan]

About that hat... WOW... I WANT THAT HAT!

Fortuately for me, it's a couple of sizes too big for you.
But I thought you might enjoy it. I bet you know a lot
more about what to wear with it than I do.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Well I only know what I like and what I see in those old westerns. Go looking at your local clothing salvage shops for some western shirts.

I'm thinking it's pre 40's... Now I need to think about it a little more.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

If you go to a western store that carries a good variety of cowboy hats, you will find that the Stetson "Gus" cowboy hat is quite similiar, but not as fancy.

That roll on the end is cool, and the crown looks a bit higher than the Gus, but it's in the ballpark (or I should say, corral).

http://www.azhatters.com/gus.jpg

karol

 

[Pilgrim]

If I owned that hat, I would go out and buy some new boots JUST to be able to wear it in public. I'm not kidding. That is MAGNIFICENT.

 

[feltfan]

Thanks Pilgrim, it really is a masterpiece of a hat.
I must admit I have added a pair of Tony Lamas
to my wardrobe since then. But the idea of wearing
both at the same time seems even more ostentatiously
pretending to be a cowboy.

Then again, the hat is so much something of another
time, I may not seem much like a phoney cowboy at
all, but rather an obvious wearer of vintage fashion,
like when I put an old Borsalino on my head.

I'll start wearing it soon!

Karol, the main difference between my hat and the
one in your link is that mine isn't machine blocked, the crown
appears to have been hand bashed. There ain't much for sale
at the moment like clear nutria boss raw edge felt... it was another time.

BTW, when I sent it up to Art he found a couple of pieces of
paperwork in the box. One labels it:

Buckskin Nut
San Fran 3 1/2

The number seems to refer to the brim width (before the curl)
and old catalogs show that Stetson had a model called "San Fran".
Since it's the San Fran, I should surely be able to wear it here in
the SF Bay Area, right?

Oh, and an "Inspected by #4" tag, in case I want to return it
for a defect.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Nice!

I was out of town the first time this thread made the rounds, but I'm glad it's back! Wow, FeltFan, that hat is terrific! What a classic! FWIW, the book that I recently got on the life of Amon Carter has a 1928 photo of someone wearing a hat that is extremely similar to yours.

But here's my main question -- what can you tell us about the clear nutria felt? Texture, feel, thickness, etc., etc. Just wondering what observations you might have on how it compares to other felts.

Cheers,
Jimmy

 

[feltfan]

I was out of town the first time this thread made the rounds, but I'm glad it's back! Wow, FeltFan, that hat is terrific! What a classic! FWIW, the book that I recently got on the life of Amon Carter has a 1928 photo of someone wearing a hat that is extremely similar to yours.

Love to see that picture if you ever get a chance
to put it on the computer. The more I look at old
catalogs, old photos, etc, the more I think that the
hat dates to the late 1920s.

But here's my main question -- what can you tell us about the clear nutria felt? Texture, feel, thickness, etc., etc. Just wondering what observations you might have on how it compares to other felts.

Gee, that's a tough request. The felt is not as thick as some
Western felt you see today, but a bit thicker than most dress felt.
For weight it's maybe a bit heavier than a classic Cavanagh felt.
It's fairly stiff, but, as I said, the crown appears to be hand
bashed, so it's not as apt to crinkle up as a stiff hat of today.
The felt is extremely dense. Each fiber seems to be fine.
The curved edges are strong and can support the weight of the hat.

Overall the felt material is extremely strong.
It has resisted even fairly modest resizing. Art has my conform/size,
but by the time it came back to me, it had shrunk to what it was when
I sent it to him and continues to resist the stretcher more strenuously
than most felt hats (though it now fits okay). The strength of the
nutria felt gives the impression it was intended to be a nearly
indestructible work hat, rather than a dress hat, but I don't know.

It has a sheen to it and a pleasing, smooth, fine fuzz finish that
invites touch.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Well, it is a beauty and I am envious.

It is probably the grandaddy of all those "Old West" or "Gus" style hats today and beats them all to H*** when it comes to quality.

Congrats on your find.

karol

 

[jimmy the lid]

Love to see that picture if you ever get a chance
to put it on the computer. The more I look at old
catalogs, old photos, etc, the more I think that the
hat dates to the late 1920s.

Go to this link and enter "32" in the search engine. Then click on the link to page 32. This is the hat that I was referring to as seeming similar to yours. You can also enter "14" in the search engine and click on the link to page 14 to see Amon Carter in a similar hat, although I believe that its proportions are somewhat larger than on yours.

Cheers,
Jimmy