My First Vintage Automobile

[zaika]

Hello folks!
So. My step dad has (finally!!) agreed to help me rebuild a vintage automobile. This is a dream come true...I've been wanting to do this since I was fourteen years old. He is a total motor head, has all the cool equipment, and is a perfectionist to a fault. So, I figure...if I could trust anyone to help me...it would be him. The problem is...surprise!! I don't have a lot of money, so after I've saved up for the body, the project will have be financed piece by tiny piece. I'm commited to spending years on this thing (unless I strike it rich!!)...so that's alright.
Here is my question...how do I even begin to look for a car that I could even remotely afford? What do I look for? What do I stay away from? Just...where do I start as I begin to save up?

 

[Edward]

I know a bit about old cars thanks to Dad's interests, but nothing of the US autos. In general, though, I'd advise picking something that is very popular on the old car scene over there, as you'll find spares availability much much better. Believe me, it's no fun having a car you can't take out for months on end while you track down a rare engine part.... especially not if you want this as a daily driver! If it is gonig to be your daily driver, try and find something that will have a reasonable level of performance to cope with modern driving conditions. Going to shows and talknig to folks who own the models you're looking at is good, also hobbyist magazines are a great soruce of information and learning (at least that's the case in the UK anyhow). An active owner's club can be a big help too in terms of help locating spares, advice (someone else has always done what you're trying to and knows the pitfalls), and so on. Often, if it is a sizeable, national club, you can find they have discount deals with spares suppliers or insurers.

 

[Paisley]

Are you going to use the car as a daily driver or just as a hobby car?

If you are looking for a daily driver, my suggestion would be to get an older Toyota or Honda that doesn't need any mechanical work, and have a mechanic (perhaps your father) inspect it before buying it. I say this as someone who owned a 1966 Mustang for several years and finally sold it because it was too much of a money pit. Yes, it was a lot of fun to drive and to have, but getting stranded and dealing with things that didn't work or weren't there (like A/C), problems passing emission tests, low gas mileage and one thing after another that needed to be fixed became a nuisance. I came to the conclusion that this was a hobby for someone richer than I.

If you still want to do this, I suggest making a budget for yourself. Pay yourself first (that is, put 10% into savings), pay any bills you have, give something to charity, save up for things you'll need, and then spend on your hobbies. You can have different savings accounts at your bank for different purposes.

Good luck.

 

[zaika]

well, this wouldn't be a daily driver, that's for sure. not as long as i live where i do now. it would definately be a weekend warrior.
and i'm kind of hoping that my dad and i can rebuild from the ground up. that way i know exactly what's been done to it and how to (possibly) fix should it ever break on me. i don't know really quite what i'm doing yet, but i want to be as involved in this project as possible. i would hate for my dad to do all the hard work. thus...coming to you fine folks!!
thank you so far for the suggestions.

 

[kpreed]

Auto Restoreation

I would find a car in your budget, there are many good candidates out there and make sure that YOU and the significant other like it most of all as it must be a labor of love on your part. Talk to car club members ( great resource for parts and cars) and leave your contact info around at parts stores and wrecking yards. It has never worked for me, but newspapers, car trader and the web too. The more popular makes and models are easy to get parts for. The rarer makes can cost more for parts and can cost you much time, even years, just looking for parts. Any car can be restored if you really want, it just takes time and money on your part. I never have done "T" Birds or Vettes, but some friends have and it is up to you and your pocket-book really. Good Luck!

 

[imoldfashioned]

Lucky girl! Keep us posted will you?

 

[kpreed]

Also never rule out a needs very little or a done car, I have let cars a few I finished go for much, much less then I have in it, just so I can get a new project. Glad I was not doing it to make a profit.

 

[dhermann1]

You could check out Hemming's Motor News, http://www.hemmings.com/ . They have lots of good articles on the subject. Here's a blog of a guy restoring 1941 Buick. He's doing a real expert job on a car that needed ground up restoration. He's been at it for 3 or 4 years.
http://blog.eastwood.com/default.asp
http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html
When you say vintage car, do you mean really old, like pre 1950? Or pretty old, like 60's or 70's? There a big difference.
If you do take on a project, please keep a blog to let the world know how you're progressing.
Keep in mind car restoring can be an infamous money pit. One popular way to start is to take over somebody else's project. Frequently people will sell a project for a fraction of the (sometimes huge) amount they've already put into it.
Here's another lace to look for old cars:
http://ww2.collectorcartrader.com/

 

[scotrace]

Choose wisely.

I started work on a wrecked '52 Oldsmobile about twelve years ago. After hours and hours of work, and a TON of money, I ended up selling it half finished. The parts I first finished were re-rusting and I lost my storage due to the death of the woman who owned the garage. It was a true heartbreaker. I never got to even drive the car once.

My advice would be to choose something fairly simple. A truck is about perfect. You can do a 40's through early 50's truck fairly easily and parts are fairly plentiful. Barring that, a 34 Ford car is much, MUCH simpler than any car after about 1948.

Sedans are cheaper to do than a convertible, and you can buy a sedan in need of restoration more cheaply - they are usually sold as parts cars for the more desirable convertibles (or two-door hardtops). Mechanically, a straight six is easier to restore than an overhead valve V8. An American car will be far easier than a Jaguar.

You can do it, just go into it with eyes wide open and choose something manageable.

 

[swankysister]

Nick Park (from Aardman Animation/Wallace and Gromit fame) is selling his 1958 Austin on ebay for a children's charity. Pick up within the United Kingdom only!

 

[zaika]

thank you thank you thank you!! i appreciate all of your comments and all of the links.

dhermann1 - i am interested in really old cars. pre-war, if possible. my dream car is a 1936 Cord 810 just cuz it's purty. unless i win the lottery, i know i'll never get one of those. but dreaming is nice. the next one in line that i love is the 1940 Ford Deluxe. my dad laughed at me for wanting that one. dunno why. i like it. that fellow's blog is so exciting to read!! i fully expect to take about as long as he is...so, thanks for the link.

scotrace-the car you are describing is pretty much what i want. an old American made sedan, nothing newer than about 1948. something simple that cleans up nicely and won't be TOO hard to restore.

a big part of my excitement is being able to understand how cars work on a very basic level. that and having a pretty thing to motor about town in for attention. lol

 

[scotrace]

Here are the two books I found most useful. They are geared completely toward the novice and will truly inspire you.

The Classic Car Restorer's Handbook. By Jim Richardson. EXCELLENT book.

How to Restore Your Chevrolet Pickup. Even if you don't do a truck, this step-by-step guide is beautifully illustrated and an invaluable guide overall.

 

[eightbore]

You have already received some good advice! A good, totally restored truck of any vintage will generally cost A LOT less than a sedan or convert of the same vintage. The above statement is also correct that it is often/usually much cheaper to buy a restored auto than to restore one...as long as you are qualified (or know someone who is qualified) to evaluate the quality of a restoration. Also, be careful not to over-restore or purchase an over-restored vehicle. Why pay for perfection (or for a car that is "more perfect" than when it came from the factory) when its really going to get driven and not exist as a trailer queen? Believe it or not, "over-restoration" happens a lot...lots of old jeeps out there with no weld marks on the body and lots of muscle cars with no overspray on motor mounts when that is the way they might have been originally shipped.

Best,

eightbore

 

[52Styleline]

My 1952 Chevrolet is very easy to find parts for. In fact there are two major suppliers of old Chevrolet parts in Portland. I've sort of lost interest in the poor old girl so she mostly just sits in her garage. My point is that in our area a vintage Chevrolet is a good bet.

 

[Flivver]

One rule of thumb that has always worked for me is to buy the best original condition or restored vehicle that you can find. Frame-off restoration projects are prohibitively expensive and they are a poor investment as well. Unless you're working on a big classic, you'll seldom recoup your investment in a full restoration. And buying parts for a car in poor condition can get very expensive...if you can even find them!

I prefer clean original cars to restorations for the simple reason that you can see exactly what you're getting. You never know what a fully restored car started out as. And, clean originals cost much less than restored cars.

You may think that a clean original condition car from the 1930s or 1940s is impossible to find. But that's just not the case. I was at the Hershey old car meet in PA last week where many clean original cars were being offered for sale. One that particularly caught my eye was an original condition 1941 Buick Super Club Sedan with factory fender skirts. Nice original interior and even useable original black paint. Asking price was $9,500, a good buy in my opinion.

And in terms of selecting a vehicle from this era that is easy to find parts for, I agree with what others here have suggested...Fords and Chevrolets are best. But to keep it affordable, pick the less popular years and bodystyles. 4-door sedans are generally priced the lowest. And 1946-48 Fords and 1946-52 Chevrolets are still quite affordable. They are also simple to work on and quite durable.

Good luck, and let us all know what you choose.

 

[PA Dancer]

My best advice for the over all project is go to as may car shows and cruises all summer long and talk to everyone.
This is where I learned the majority of knowledge on classic cars.

When picking out a car your number one priority is RUST!
Bring a small flexible refrigerator magnet with you. You know the ones that companies will print thier info on...
Tap that around the car. If it's not stickiing you may have too much bondo under that paint.

Hemmings is a great magazine. There are a few others out there too. Hit up your local Borders books store magazine isle. I call it "car porn". heehee.

Google has helped me find "7 tips for buying a classic car" and "consumer buying tips for purchasing a classic.... by Jim Van Gordon" There are things in these articals that I would have never thought of asking. If you need help finding them...let me know.

Parts...I wouldn't worry too much about. I know here in PA, there is monthly car parts expo that would take you a week to stop at every table. And if you can't find the parts...make friends with your local machine shop. If you can't find it...it can be made.

Research research research. Cars online.com is one of my favorite sites for looking at cars and getting an idea of prices. Every price tag is meant to come down.

If you are going to gut and restore a junker....don't pay more than 1000 bucks on the body. If the car is a get in and go...you'll pay as much as buying a new car.

Insurance...Cheap!...I love haggerty....they will even do loans up to 12 years depending on the price of the car.
EX...I wanted to take a loan for 20K...good credit...they said it would be 321 per month for 7 years.

Putting it on the road. Here in PA if you get antique or classic tags...you are exempt from inspections.

Anyway....I could go on and on....but I won't.
I wish you the best of luck!
Ann

 

[Edward]

If the car is a get in and go...you'll pay as much as buying a new car.

Difference being, the vintage should go up in value as a general rule - not drop by a grand the minute you drive it off the lot.

Choose wisely.

(Insert photo of Crusading Knight from Last Crusade. lol

Mechanically, a straight six is easier to restore than an overhead valve V8.

Should be a hell of a lot cheaper to feed, too!

 

[Twitch]

Zaika- there are MANY decent cars for $10,000 or less so don't get tennel vision into believing you'll need to spend $50,000 unless you're into 57 Chevies.

I got my 1950 Packard off Ebay 3 years ago for $9,500 in the condition you see it in the picture. It's not worth much more now. It's not one of the highly sought after vehicles that escalate beyond normal human sensibility in value.

You can find nice Studebakers, Packards, Hudsons, Nashs, Edsels and much more.

Go to http://www.vmrintl.com/ and http://www.nada.com for values and condition definitions- there are VERY few official #1 cars out there.

As mentioned buy as much car as you can. Doing things like chroming and body and paint plus interior cosmetics alone is costly not counting mechanical. Find something that is as much restored or perfect original as you can pay for.

Parts? Check out http://www.kanter.com to begin for listings by brand.

Go to Ebay and look at the "collector car" category in the brands I listed above and you'll see what $10-12,000 can buy.

 

[Bill Taylor]

There was a near mint 48 or 49 (pre bullet nose) Studebaker Landcruiser (top of the line and much bigger than a Champion) on ebay for a pretty good price. Probably wouldn't take much dollars if any to make it perfect.

And maybe someone can tell you how to start a Stude - the seller probably can't. You turn the key on and step on the clutch to the floor and it starts. Stude's of that period also have a hill holder and overdrive.

Stude's aren't very popular, but they are pretty cars and very reliable. Late 40's were 6 cyl engines. Studebake stopped making 8 cyl engines prior to WWII. '39 or '40 may have been the last 8s until the V8s of the mid 50s. Stude owned Erskine and Pierce Arrow during the late 20s and 30s until they stopped making them and merged with Packard in the 50s and stopped making Packards in the late 50s. 1956 or 57 was the last Packard, I think. (Could have been a year or so later, can't recall without looking it up).

1940 Fords are very popular and pricey, even for wrecks. '37 or '38s less expensive but are not as handsome.

Comb through ebay for price comparisions. You can either use the collector car function, or actually, the method I use so you pick them all up is to go to auto brand you know made earlier cars (49 or prior) and click on the year column then click again. That will arrange the cars by earliest year model first for sale. That works for Ford, Chevy, Buick, etc (cars still made). You don't need to do that for Packard, Stude's, Hudson's, Nash's since they are all on one or two pages anyway. There's a 1950 DeSoto 4 Dr Sedan on ebay described as nearly new condition that wasn't getting much bid activity. DeSoto was made by Chrysler and would be comparable to say a large Buick of the time. They also have a Fluid Drive Transmission which is a sort of automatic, but has a clutch which you don't have to use unless you are actually moving the shift lever to a different gear (i.e. reverse). I was amused at one ebay seller of a Fluid Drive car to state that he just figured out how to make the car shift. You start out in high not using the clutch, then raise your foot off the accelerator and it shifts to crusing gear automatically.

Good luck on your mission!

 

[imoldfashioned]

Twitch, I LOVE your car! I envy all you folks living in warm climates--the salt and snow and cold up here are brutal on cars.