Message to Hat Manufacturers re: Inconsistent Sizing

[philosophy101]

Hat sizing is woefully inconsistent, as many have reported here on the FL. (I'm speaking here of hats from the larger makers, not the small custom makers.)

Why don't manufacturers measure each hat's size after it's finished, and then stick in a size label that corresponds to that particular hat's actual size? After all, we don't want to know what size the maker intended a particular hat to be; we want to know what size a particular hat is!

Moreover, it's not merely that one maker's hats consistently "run big," while another's "run small." Nor is it even that a particular model within a given manufacturer's lineup "runs big" (or small, or whatever). Actual, measured sizes can be all over the map, even within the same production run of the same make and model of hat.

I get that the manufacturing process may be such that it's difficult to control precisely, hence all the sample-to-sample variation. Fair enough. But since such imprecision is in fact the case, why not just measure and then label each hat when it's done?

Hat Manufacturers: Are you listening? If you make it easier for your customers to get a good fit, you'll sell more of them!

 

[CSG]

In my limited experience locally, it sure seems to be the case. It's put me off trying to buy online.

 

[Duper]

I sympathize with your concern. Perhaps the parameters are reduced on a hat, but we still have regular, long oval, extra long oval heads. Most pieces of attire vary in size and shape even within the same brand. Running shoes, sometimes I take a 10.5 another time an 11. Some pants I can get by with a 32 inch inseam and others I am wearing floods. Shirt sleeve length, oh my goodness. Hanes underwear or Fruit of the Loom. One in size medium I am cozy and the other my voice goes up an octave. I just wish I could remember which one it was when I am standing in the aisle at the store. :-[

While a true standard would be nice, there will always be a little give and take. Even if a hat fits beautifully on day one, some rain, some heat and things change. Do your research, speak with the retailers, or go custom.

Happy hunting!

 

[Andykev]

Hat sizing is woefully inconsistent...
Hat Manufacturers: Are you listening? If you make it easier for your customers to get a good fit, you'll sell more of them!

I honestly don't think anyone from a large hat manufacturer will read your post. Ever.

 

[gtdean48]

The only hat mfg rep we had has not been around for a while. Won't reply to email...

 

[philosophy101]

I honestly don't think anyone from a large hat manufacturer will read your post. Ever.

I know, Andy, it's about as likely as putting a message in a bottle, tossing it in the ocean, and hoping someone on another continent will read it.

What I find so exasperating is that achieving reasonably accurate size labeling just isn't rocket science. There's a hat store in the Boston area (Salmagundi -- a fine establishment, BTW) whose proprietor showed me a precision hat-size gauge that they use in their store. All the manufacturers would need to do is have someone measure the finished hats with some such device, and label them accordingly. Wouldn't take more than 30 seconds per hat. It sure seems to me it would be in the manufacturers' interest to do so. Good for the consumer, good for the manufacturer ... everybody wins.

 

[nice hat dude!]

In a perfect world everything that is ever made should all be run through quality control,we don't live in that fairytale place it's upsetting that this is not the case but you're just complaining about hats how about the cars we drive,food we eat ect the only one that really bothers me is beer take a case and measure each bottle am I really getting my full 12 ozs.If there was a governing body to make sure everything was up to the same standards then they'd complain about who's standards they would use.Not to say you don't have a legitimate beef but I don't think it's going to change any time soon.

 

[philosophy101]

In a perfect world everything that is ever made should all be run through quality control,we don't live in that fairytale place it's upsetting that this is not the case but you're just complaining about hats how about the cars we drive,food we eat ect the only one that really bothers me is beer take a case and measure each bottle am I really getting my full 12 ozs..

Thanks for your sympathy, nhd. Though I daresay nowadays it's easier to find a really good beer than a really good hat!

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

If you want a hat to fit perfect custom is the way to go.
Hat Manufactures could care less about the fit. Or how we feel about the hats.

 

[Walt]

Do any clothing manufactures attempt to conform to or meet ISO 9001 standards---none that I know of. They probably figure the customer will try the item out at the place of purchase to confirm proper fit and unless retailers started complaining because they couldn't sell inventory because of repeated problems with fit and sizing then it isn't their problem.

Clearly they don't have online (sight unseen/not tried on before purchase) sales in their view of things either.

But then head sizes are also variable to....so much for quality control!

Some of us just have to try on a lot more hats.

 

[Jedwbpm]

philosophy101 the tool you are talking about is useless in the most part. It will miss measure a hat as often at measures it right. At our shop we use our heads. We know our size or where we fits in the size equation and we try the hats out. When customers order hats we talk to them about there size and do the best to fit them. I agree that the big hat makers should do a better job at QC but they don't and I bet they didn't 50 to 75 years ago. And yes we do loose money because of it. The hatter that you use is a good one and I bet if you pushed him he would admit that his head is the best tool that he has in his shop.

Jeff
http://delmonicohatter.com

 

[nice hat dude!]

Thanks for your sympathy, nhd. Though I daresay nowadays it's easier to find a really good beer than a really good hat!

But is it my full 12ozs(haha)You are probably right but then again there are probably more beer drinkers than hat wearers in the world.

 

[gtdean48]

shoes are not standardized, why do you think hats would be? I wear from a 9 to a 10.5, depending on shoe mfg. Reality bites!

 

[nice hat dude!]

shoes are not standardized, why do you think hats would be? I wear from a 9 to a 10.5, depending on shoe mfg. Reality bites!

Wanna buy a horse?(haha)

 

[mayserwegener]

Do any clothing manufactures attempt to conform to or meet ISO 9001 standards---none that I know of.

Mayser has ISO 9001.

http://www.mayser.com/english/unternehmen/zertifikate.asp

 

[Walt]

Mayser has ISO 9001.

Figures, leave it to a German hat company to go to the trouble and expense of doing that! Germans are known for being quality fanatics! :eusa_clap

Are there any others? Any US? I doubt it.

So are Mayser's more consistent with respect to quality or sizing? Sorry, but I have never seen or handled their products in person.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

This is a interesting topic and has so many parts to it in ways of material and issues that can and will play a part in it. My very first hat was Vintage Dunlap, made in the late 1940's, maybe early 1950's. It was seldom worn from when it was first made, I am sure it sat on a shelf in it's original box for about 40 or more years until I found it and purchased it to wear. It is the hat in my avatar, by the way. The size inside the hat was 7 1/4. It looked like brand new. No noticeable wear at all. It fit me. It was also the very only 7 1/4 hat to ever fit me. Recently I purchased a few hats that are 7 1/2 in size. They fit me like they were made for me, and those hats were also vintage, but looked like new, and one was never worn by anyone other than me from 1962. Some of my hats are 7 3/8 long oval and some regular 7 3/8 and one of two 7 3/8 have been just too small...so I sold them to someone hopeful the hat would fit them better.

I do not think anything any hat maker could do is going to totally fix the fit issues. No two heads are alike. Our heads are just like other parts of our bodies. I firmly think anyone here will agree, (you may spank me if I am wrong about this, but), when a hat is made and a size tag is placed onto it, that size is really there to be a guideline to what may fit you, period. The words of importance is guideline and fit you. Now I am sure the size certification of the German Hat company may help to some degree that a hat when at the factory is factually a certain size and not just a close to it size hat....but now you also always have to factor in such things as moisture, handling, and even material. All hats I have owned that are Fedora hats made of wool, have over time become smaller in size very rapidly if not worn daily or at least one time a week. One wool fedora went from a size 7 3/8 long oval to a size 7 being in a box and forgotten for about two years. I was shocked and disappointed but it happened. Rabbit fur hats, geez, maybe they shrink a bit faster than beaver felt hats? Not sure but it may be that way. Maybe a 100x Stetson will shrink slower than a 3x hat?

You have a very honest concern without a doubt. But I myself can not see a way to make hats all be so exact for fitting each of us so accurately. That is why some of the custom hat makers have those gizmo's they send for you to place on your head and set it to your head size and then ship it back to them. Now you have a hat in your size. Sure you can take a chance on things maybe fitting when you buy on eBay....I have made it clear to my Wife as she buys 90 percent of all my hats...buy it bigger and I can make it work...but buying it close to size of my size and it will more than likely be too small, (if that makes sense). So I wear between a 7 3/8's and a 7 1/2. I try to stick to buying 7 1/2. If I had a custom hat made by anyone would not matter if it was Art Fawcett, Black Sheep, Major Moore, Tumwater, or any other custom maker, if I had them make a hat a generous 7 1/2 and not use any form of gizmo to fit my head, the size would be o.k. to fit me if it is a bit too big. I can shim behind the sweatband, wear it and over time it will start to fit me like it was made for my head to begin with. That is the beauty of hats. At least it is for me....seems the more I wear a hat the better it fits me. I think maybe the same holds true for most other people as well. So I can only tell you if you need to be closer to a size for you to feel comfortable in the size of hat to fit you, just ask a lot of questions to who ever it is selling you the hat. Example, Camp Draft Akubra hats are known to be a bit different in overall size from what I observe about them from fellow loungers. If I want to buy one, I am going to flat out ask everyone, "Hey, I want to buy a camp draft hat, what size should I order"? The majority of folks here are going to tell me an honest opinion I can trust, and would trust. The same holds true about most hats, clothing items, shoes, etc. If you are looking for size and item, even quality or color, you can with no doubt ask about it here on the lounge and someone far more expert than me will give you some form of honest input and you can trust what they will tell you without a doubt. That is one of the best things about the Lounge. I like it, and think it if fantastic to find the help here that you can!

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Figures, leave it to a German hat company to go to the trouble and expense of doing that! Germans are known for being quality fanatics! :eusa_clap

Are there any others? Any US? I doubt it.

So are Mayser's more consistent with respect to quality or sizing? Sorry, but I have never seen or handled their products in person.

I was almost the owner of one from Ebay but someone else snagged it. I think they have to be decent hats, and they sure do look beautiful from what I can see about them. I would think if those hats are well kept and maintained they just may stay close from one hat to another in size. However given that to be the case, one hat that is a 7 3/8 size may fit you and not fit me. Another hat in 7 3/8 may fit me and not fit you. Heads are more than likely the biggest part of the fit issue and not hats being the biggest part of the fit issue. I think that is the message from Custom hat makers to all of us posting here in this thread. I am sure my head is more "Mr. Potato" head then yours may be, so what would fit me and not fit you?

Have to agree with German made products. Love their quality on almost anything made in Germany. Can I say, "Porsche"???? , "Mercedes Benz"???? "Bosch"? So I can see a Mayser having some deep quality control going on for the hats they make. And after viewing the hats Mayserwegener and a few fellow loungers that reside in Europe have posted pictures of, oh yes, they make a really sweet looking hat.

 

[davidraphael]

I have 58s smaller than some 57s and 59s as big as some 60s.

You'd think math/numbers would be fixed, right?

Imagine if this flexibility with numbers was applied in other areas of life: Next time I charge £1000 for a design job I'll tell the client that it's a "large £1000" (which is approximately £1300....)


(RE: Maysers. Vintage Maysers are always spot on, in my experience. 58 means 58 and they fit me absolutely perfectly. But this summer I tried on a new Mayser panama size 58 and it was so small that, if I hadn't known the size, I would have guessed it was a large 56 or small 57.)

 

[philosophy101]

I have 58s smaller than some 57s and 59s as big as some 60s.

You'd think math/numbers would be fixed, right?

Imagine if this flexibility with numbers was applied in other areas of life: Next time I charge £1000 for a design job I'll tell the client that it's a "large £1000" (which is approximately £1300....)

davidraphael, that is so funny I nearly laughed my head off!!!