Looking for the name: specific jacket style 1901- 1918 ish

[frockman]

Hello all,

New to this forum, but as I always hear and have read myself there is a lot of knowledge here to say the least. THe question is a bit before the times normally recorded on Fedora Lounge but I am confidant someone knows the answer.

So:
I was wondering if anyone knew of the specific Edwardian style suit jacket ...maybe 1901- WWI ish.

It is a hybrid between the frock coat, the morning coat (aka cutaway or swallowtail) and a regular sack suit jacket of the day. It is longer like a frock or morning coat. The center front hem splits away like a morning coat does but not so suddenly and instead of rounded it is more squared. It has waist pockets almost always with flaps and often with an external watch pocket too. It always seems to have three or four button and closes fairly high on the chest. Often in patterned woven wool usually colored, unlike frocks or morning coats of the the time that would be black, darker, or maybe gray.The coats always seem to have two button at the tails like a morning and frock coat.

I would only describe it otherwise as a day suit or town suit.

I cant find the name for it, but I know there is an exact term for it, like for example the Norfolk Suit

 

[Qirrel]

I think I know what you are talking about, but i don't know any specific name for it. If I am correct, this type of coat is more of a 1880-1900 thing than edwardian. In all of my edwardian references there arent any pictures of it.

 

[frockman]

Well sure they could have been that early too. But defiantly in the 1901- teens range. In the Jno.J. MItchell Co. ME's Fashion Illustrations from the turn of the Century they seem to be throughout 1900-1910 and perhaps lessening toward the 1910's in this brief glimpse. Great book by the way but no names on things.
Anyway I have my eye on an original one dated 1903 that fits me rather well.
I thought I had had one pass through me (sold) that was dated in the teens. BUt someone wrote to me once and mentioned a specific name... of course i forgot it.
Cheers

 

[Qirrel]

Could you upload a picture? Would be easier to know if we are talking about the same thing.

 

[herringbonekid]

what you're describing sounds like the turn of the century proportions of a lounge suit, which is simply the suit that the sack and all subsequent modern variations evolved from.

 

[Qirrel]

what you're describing sounds like the turn of the century proportions of a lounge suit, which is simply the suit that the sack and all subsequent modern variations evolved from.

Are you sure?
"It is longer like a frock or morning coat."
"The coats always seem to have two button at the tails like a morning and frock coat."

That is not how i would describe the lounge suit of that time.

I found a picture. Is this what you are talking about?

 

[herringbonekid]

Qirrel, the one on the left (above) is exactly what i imagine Frockman is describing (or somewhere between those two in length). it looks as if it has a waist seam which indicates that it probably has the back with the double vents and buttons that came from the frock coat. it's a transitional phase between the frock/morning jacket and lounge jacket, but i'd still call it a lounge.



edit: here's the back in question on 2 shorter jackets:

 

[Qirrel]

I wouldn't say its in the transitional phase; lounge suits as we know them today existed long before that illustration i posted was drawn. I'd call that a morning coat, it is closer to that than to a lounge suit, what do you think?

 

[herringbonekid]

Stroller ?

 

[frockman]

Sorry I was away...
Yes the one on the left ... It is the same length to a frock coat or morning coat, keeping in mind that the hem of both hovered above and below the knee to varying degrees depending on the year and style. This one appear to have three buttons perhaps, with the flap pockets.

To answer later post, yes as I described they do seem to always have two buttons on the "tails".
The "stroller" seems to fit, I had always called it a walking suit but I don't know where I heard that .
Lounge jacket seems a little loose. Anyway, no one has hit the "name" of it yet, assuming still that there is a name for this suit.
Which there must have been at the time...you couldn't just go around wearing/buying/manufacturing/selling an entire style of suit that had no name right?

 

[scotrace]

Here is your answer, via Marc Chevalier:

It was called an "English walking coat suit" (or, alternately, a "business frock suit") and was marketed as a more formal 'business/town' version of the lounge suit -- back when lounge suits were still largely seen as 'country/weekend' wear. English walking coat suits never achieved much popularity in the U.S., but they did indicate that men were moving from frock coats toward lounge suits -- even for business. Pages 4 and 5 of "Esquire's Encyclopedia of 20th Century Men's Fashions" devotes several paragraphs to the subject.

 

[Qirrel]

Here is your answer, via Marc Chevalier:

It was called an "English walking coat suit" (or, alternately, a "business frock suit") and was marketed as a more formal 'business/town' version of the lounge suit -- back when lounge suits were still largely seen as 'country/weekend' wear. English walking coat suits never achieved much popularity in the U.S., but they did indicate that men were moving from frock coats toward lounge suits -- even for business. Pages 4 and 5 of "Esquire's Encyclopedia of 20th Century Men's Fashions" devotes several paragraphs to the subject.

Thanks for the info. I would have looked in an esquires encyclopedia myself, was it not for the fact that it is so **** expensive!

 

[frockman]

Many thanks !!

As I am new to this site and this type of discussion board in general is there a way to look up threads that I start myself?

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

I am not sure what you mean. You don't want to miss new answers? Maybe it's "Subscribe to this Thread"? Scroll up to the top of the page. Right under the Title of the thread there is a bar with a menu on the right. Select in "Thread Tools" and then "Subscribe to this Thread". I think you will get notifications if someone writes there. I didn't use the function myself.

Or if you just want to find your last postings, click on your user name and select "View Forum Posts"

 

[carldelo]

Many thanks !!

As I am new to this site and this type of discussion board in general is there a way to look up threads that I start myself?

At the Forum homepage, click on 'Advanced Search' at the upper right. Once there, click the tab for 'Search Single Content Type'. After you put your own user name into the box, you can choose 'Find Threads Started By User' as the search criterion.