Little Boy, August 6

[MrBern]

Just a reminder that today is the anniversary of the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

Moments before the atomic bomb was dropped, my mother’s friend happened to seek shelter from the bright summer sunlight in the shadow of a sturdy brick wall, and she watched from there as two children who had been playing out in the open were vaporized in the blink of an eye. “I just felt outraged,” she told my mother, weeping.

 

[Silver Dollar]

Back in the 80's when I was stationed in Jersey, I had a patient who told me this story. He had survived the Bataan Death March and was put into a Japanese prison camp. One day while he was working with some other POWs, he heard a huge explosion, turned around and saw this huge cloud of fire and smoke. He said it looked like the ammo dump in the prison camp went up. After the war, he found out that the explosion was actually over 30 miles away. I asked him where the prison camp was located. He replied "30 miles outside Hiroshima". He didn't know it but he had witnessed the atom bomb first hand.

 

[MrBern]

Theres an interesting Animated movie on the bombing of Hiroshima thru the viewpoint of a young boy & his family. Its kind of weird to see a cartoon on such a serious subject.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085218/

The movie was developed from manga by an artist who had actually been a Hiroshima survivor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiji_Nakazawa

 

[Chas]

I was thinking about this the other day- pretty hard core stuff. One thing that blows my mind is that even after the second bomb dropped the militarists tried to stop the Emperor's surrender broadcast from being played.

 

[Edward]

Its kind of weird to see a cartoon on such a serious subject.

Not in context - while here in the West, we tend to think of animation as a kids' format, in Japan they have long had a tradition of adult-oriented animated works.

Whatever lessons were learned and data gathered from the dropping of those bombs, I hope that noone again ever feels the need or justification to do so. The devastation they caused was horrific.

 

[Silver Dollar]

As I write this, it's the anniversary of the hydrogen bomb fat man dropped on Nagasaki. I hope this stays the last use of a nuclear weapon in past and future human history. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[LaMedicine]

The devastation they caused was horrific.

The devastation that they are still causing. Even after 65 years, the health the majority of survivors continue to decline not just due to old age, and what's more, though our government doesn't officially recognize it, the health of the children of the survivors, as well as those exposed to residual radiation upon entering the cities after the fateful days are still being affected as well.
Then, you had the excuse of didn't know. Now, you don't. It's a weapon that must be banned forever.

 

[Edward]

The devastation that they are still causing. Even after 65 years, the health the majority of survivors continue to decline not just due to old age, and what's more, though our government doesn't officially recognize it, the health of the children of the survivors, as well as those exposed to residual radiation upon entering the cities after the fateful days are still being affected as well.
Then, you had the excuse of didn't know. Now, you don't. It's a weapon that must be banned forever.

True... The front page of this morning's Metro carries an article about the British military victims of nuclear testing by the military, still fighting for compensation all these years on. Meanwhile, on another US based forum I occasionally frequent, a bunch of idiots put up a thread celebrating the bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki - which makes it more important than ever that the true horror of these things not be forgotten.

 

[LaMedicine]

The front page of this morning's Metro carries an article about the British military victims of nuclear testing by the military, still fighting for compensation all these years on.

The US has a similar issue. I read a news article a few years back that the number may be as high as 45,000, which is no small crowd. Even if it came along in the line of duty, is what comes after worth it?
I imagine there are French veterans in the same spot, too. And the Russians and the Indians and the Chinese and the Pakistani as well. North Korea, too. Many of them might not even know what's at the root of their problems.

I always cringe at the expression, "nuke 'em" and it doesn't mean the microwave oven. Heck, I even cringe when it is about the microwave--thoughts by association.

As for those who celebrate, there will always be such people. Let them celebrate their own ignorance. [huh]

 

[dhermann1]

As I write this, it's the anniversary of the hydrogen bomb fat man dropped on Nagasaki. I hope this stays the last use of a nuclear weapon in past and future human history. That's all I have to say about that.

It was a plutonium bomb. The H bomb was not till the 50's.

 

[Edward]

As for those who celebrate, there will always be such people. Let them celebrate their own ignorance. [huh]

They always make me think of Freddy Nietsche when he said "He who fights monsters...".

 

[MrBern]

fission vs fusion

It was a plutonium bomb. The H bomb was not till the 50's.

Yes, the WWII bombs were A-Bombs.
Little Boy on Hiroshima was Uranium, while Fat Man on Nagasaki was Plutonium.
Later came the thermonuclear H-Bombs, which fortunately havent been launched in any war.

 

[Story]

And why where two Atomic Bombs used?

IN RECENT YEARS, historians looking into the reasons behind the decision to drop the atomic bombs have been hampered by a lack of understanding of how the casualty projections given to President Harry Truman by the U.S. Army were formed, or even that specific methodologies existed for their creation. Complicating the situation even further for modern researchers is the fact that campaign, medical, and logistics planners used a form of verbal shorthand in their communications with colleagues, who had a common understanding of those methodologies and shared similar data on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposing U.S. and Japanese forces. Consequently, World War II planning documents frequently have been misinterpreted and, together with a lack of research below the "top layer" of documents, this has led many historians to the conclusion that President Harry Truman's assertion that he expected huge losses during an invasion^! 1 was fraudulent, and his claim that "General Marshall told me that it might cost half a million American lives to force the enemy's surrender on his home grounds"^2 <page 522> was a "postwar creation" to justify dropping the bombs on a "civilian target" and hide more sinister, calculating reasons for their use
http://home.roadrunner.com/~casualties/

By the end of July 1945, the ground forces in Japan had been increased to a basic strength of 30 line-combat divisions, 24 coastal-combat divisions, and 23 independent mixed brigades, 2 armored divisions, 7 tank brigades, and 3 infantry brigades.
http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/macarthur reports/macarthur v1/ch13.htm

During the last few months of the Pacific War, the remaining units of the IJAAF outside of the Home Islands were mainly isolated and impotent, their planes parked near their runways or airstrips without any prospect for deliveries of aviation gasoline, spare parts or ammunition. By that time, the planes of the IJAAF in the Home Islands were also parked near their respective runways as well, being saved along with stocks of aviation gasoline for the anticipated Allied invasion of Kyushu.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijnaf.htm

OPERATION KETSU-GO
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/arens/chap4.htm

 

[Aristaeus]

Nagasaki Bomber, Bocks Car.

Crew of Bocks Car.

 

[dhermann1]

One million

The idea of one million killed keeps getting kicked around as the excuse for bombing. What was actually projected was one millin casualties. That would, based on previous numbers, equate to one hundred thousand killed, more or less. Not as bad as a million, but still a horrific number to contemplate.
And that's only American casualties. Japanese casualties usually ran between 7 and 10 times higher in every fight. That would easily have meat at least a million Japanese dead.
Maybe this is perverse thinking. But it is said that the survivirs of Hiroshima often had survivor guilt. They felt they should also have died, when so many others near them did die. It could also be said that their sacrifice saved millions of Japanese lives.
But it's all so hypothetical. It's just nuts to get emotionally whipped up about hypothetical eventualities. We can never know what really would have happened.

 

[Silver Dollar]

It was a plutonium bomb. The H bomb was not till the 50's.

Whoops. There I go again. I stand corrected.

 

[Ed Bass]

While the debate to use weapons of mass destruction wages on and on, let's not lose sight of what initiated this final result.

All those fine U.S. soldiers laying dead in the bottom of Pearl Harbor. Victims of an unannounced sneak attack.

At the time Nagasaki and Hiroshima were bombed, Japan was a country at war. This means you can expect an attack on your home soil at any time.

It's impossible to look back and apply peace time ideologies to war time stratagies.

 

[LaMedicine]

While the debate to use weapons of mass destruction wages on and on, let's not lose sight of what initiated this final result.

All those fine U.S. soldiers laying dead in the bottom of Pearl Harbor. Victims of an unannounced sneak attack.

At the time Nagasaki and Hiroshima were bombed, Japan was a country at war. This means you can expect an attack on your home soil at any time.

It's impossible to look back and apply peace time ideologies to war time stratagies.

Just as we must face the consequences of our actions, so must you. Because you have justice on your side doesn't mean that you don't have to face the consequences of the devastation of a weapon because the extent of the damage it incurs was unknown then, nor continue to reserve the right to condone them and use them after the effects have become clear.
Is it too much to ask to recognize that nuclear weapons are the kind of weapons that kill not only at the time of their being used, but that it keeps on killing in the future, even years and years after peace treaties have been signed, and so we all must work towards banning and abolishing such weapons starting right now?

 

[LordBest]

Generals Eisenhower and Macarthur (amongst others) both opposed the use of atomic bombs at the time. Given that the justification of the bombings themselves is open for debate (a debate which I am not going to get into here) simply saying 'They started' really doesn't add much. The death and suffering of the victims should be remembered regardless of 'who started it', and we can all hope weapons of such destructive capacity are never again employed.

It's impossible to look back and apply peace time ideologies to war time stratagies.

 

[Ed Bass]

simply saying 'They started' really doesn't add much.

You seem to have misunderstood or misinterpreted my post LordBest.

The simple point here is that violence begets violence.