Let's raise the bar a little.

[Feraud]

A member was banned after having been warned numerous times about their behavior. Numerous times? What would you say is the problem with a person that neglects to heed multiple warnings about his behavior? Honestly, I am surprised it did not happen sooner. I never had issue with BB but I have seen him write some inappropriate comments towards others. Inappropriate to the point that I sometimes thought it was just an act on his part.

I am all for forum discipline and see nothing wrong in how recent issues have been resolved.

Some folks cry about "Freedom of Speech". Is F.O.S. the right of the loudest to out-shout everyone and conversations devolve into meaningless, insulting rants? I think not, nor do the mods.

Should anyone other than the banned member go on a childish rant and attempt to defend a banned member him by insulting MK or bartenders? Is that really the best way to have your voice heard? This style of speech, has nothing to do with "Freedom of Speech", manliness, liberal, conservative, or any other ridiculous catch phrase. It is merely a thinly disguided attempt to bait and sway the opinions of the members.

No one is allowed to run rampant on MK's site. That is his rule and you can either play by it or go home. I have faith in all our moderators to do the right thing.

 

[Solomon Kane]

I don't know who BB is, but I am going to assume that you are writing about the character who's screen name was Biltmore Bob. Just why are people so exercised about him?

The above post reminds me that some will blindly follow and never question authority. I also realize that this is a privately held concern and governed as such. So the owner and Bartenders decide who will be served or not. In this case, Biltmore Bob. Freedom of speech is only guaranteed by the government of the USA. I just wish I could acess his posts, so I could see what all the fuss is about. Apparently some like this soul and some don't.

It would also appear, that even in death, he lives.

Solomon Kane

 

[Feraud]

The above post reminds me that some will blindly follow and never question authority.

You referring to me? If so, you hardly know me well enough to judge how I question & follow authority..

 

[Zemke Fan]

Not exactly SK...

Freedom of speech is only guaranteed by the government of the USA. Solomon Kane

Freedom of speech is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. It is a right that citizens had before the country was formed and it cannot be abridged by the government. -- ZF

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I commend MK on his decision to ban a member who continues to insult others on the site, even after being warned that he/she is out of order. I am sure he did not come to the conclusion to do so lightly.

I have belonged to groups and websites in the past in which one person has come in and shut down the whole organization by a stream of negativity that never ended. Some were sociopaths who never listened or learned -- just kept insulting, hurting and injecting negative comments until there was no one left to listen. If a person is driving off new members of a group or hurting others and causing them to withdraw, is that something we would want for our FL members?

I personally enjoyed some of the banter we had with BB and worried about him and his dogs during the hurricanes in the Gulf, but I know he insulted and hurt a number of people here. We have members here who are of other cultures and races and religions or who have alternate lifestyles. None of us should be subject to being dished and insulted any more than an African American or a person of color be called racist names. Nor should anyone who is not a white American Christian be patronized or threatened or be made to feel less by those who are. Believe you me, that can and does drive people away.

There are websites in which folks can air views that he held. And air them in the same way he did.

Thanks MK and Bartenders for handling the sticky issues and trying to make the Lounge a place where people of all backgrounds can share their love of hats and vintage things and also respect each other's lives and lifestyles.

karol

 

[Andykev]

The bartenders have to wipe up spills

Freedom of speech is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. It is a right that citizens had before the country was formed and it cannot be abridged by the government. -- ZF

Freedom of speech is a wonderful right enjoyed by our citizens. However, you cannot, and the courts have upheld, yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater, as one example. Freedom of speech carries with it a responsibility, to respect the rights and opinions of others. You are not a scholar of Government if you believe otherwise, that Freedom of Speech is unlimited.

The FEDORA LOUNGE, in MY opinion, and not speaking for the Management, is a wonderful forum to express IDEAS regarding events, hats, movies, vintage, historical, travels, and other things associated with "The Golden Age".

Unfortunately, as an example, SOME few members use this forum as a soap box to ram their views, opinions, etc., down the throats of others with no regard for the other person's view. The Bartenders quite judiciously are forced to step in when the discussion becomes a dirty personal kitchen sink affair.

First Amendment. Enjoy it. Don't abouse it. There are people on this site from all races, colors, sexes, political camps....we are all valuable members. In any of my topic areas, I will ALWAYS shut something down when it is headed to the "train wreck" status, and people are stabbing eachother.

Go somewhere else for that. Look under Google "flamewars" .

 

[Solid Citizen]

When your a guest, your a guest all the way

IMO:

1. When your a guest in someones house you abide by their house rules.

2. This is MK's house, he pays for it & is kind enough to allow our daily visits.

.3. Thanks MK for the Fedora Lounge & allowing us to be your guests.

SC

 

[Solomon Kane]

You referring to me? If so, you hardly know me well enough to judge how I question & follow authority..

Actually, I was refering to Section 10.

 

[Zemke Fan]

A clarification...

Freedom of speech is a wonderful right enjoyed by our citizens. However, you cannot, and the courts have upheld, yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater, as one example. Freedom of speech carries with it a responsibility, to respect the rights and opinions of others. You are not a scholar of Government if you believe otherwise, that Freedom of Speech is unlimited.

Andy: My post was to correct SK's contention that freedom of speech somehow originated with and is guaranteed by the federal government. It does not stem from that source and -- yes -- the government can impose limits to protect the public good, but FOS is a fundamental right guaranteed under the Constitution.

AND, to stay on point and clarify my own position, as others have pointed out, it DOESN'T apply to this forum. I completely support MK's right (as owner) to suspend anyone who flagrantly violates the house rules and ignores many warnings to cease and desist. I also support the rights of the bartenders to close threads that are getting out of control. You know that from my PMs to you asking for that action on a case or two.

Being part of this online community is a privilege and not a right. That privilege can be revoked at any time.

 

[Section10]

I would say that in a forum like this, to express your opinion is legitimate, but in doing so you cannot tear others down. There are people on here with ideas that I think are desperately wrong. Yet, if they play by the rules, they have just as much right to be here and express themselves as I do. I don't have to agree with them and I am willing to constructively debate them. I have no right to debase them.
This place is something like a game. If anything is to be accomplished at all a game must have rules. We'd all like to grab the ball and run through the goal posts, but if it's half time; what have we accomplished?
I am here by choice and this lounge exists by choice. If it disappears tomorrow it would have no real impact on my life. Therefore, I am willing to let others govern it and I will submit to its rules and make the most of my time here. If we all did that, this could be a place to learn, to enjoy and to build relationships with a wide variety of people. Conformity is impossible, but diversity within unity is very attainable.

 

[Feraud]

Actually, I was refering to Section 10.

Oops! My apologies!

 

[Harry Lime]

Sorry Feraud.

Mis-typed myself and the whisky bottle isn't even open. Didn't mean to write my response as a reply to your quote, which is why it probably seems odd to you. Sorry, my friend. My bad.

Harry Lime

 

[Solomon Kane]

Andy: My post was to correct SK's contention that freedom of speech somehow originated with and is guaranteed by the federal government. It does not stem from that source and -- yes -- the government can impose limits to protect the public good, but FOS is a fundamental right guaranteed under the Constitution.

AND, to stay on point and clarify my own position, as others have pointed out, it DOESN'T apply to this forum. I completely support MK's right (as owner) to suspend anyone who flagrantly violates the house rules and ignores many warnings to cease and desist. I also support the rights of the bartenders to close threads that are getting out of control. You know that from my PMs to you asking for that action on a case or two.

Being part of this online community is a privilege and not a right. That privilege can be revoked at any time.

I did not say the right to free speech exsisted here. On the contrary, I said it did not. I was using the Government as a generality. I am familiar with the Bill of Rights. MK can do what he wishes.

 

[Feraud]

Mis-typed myself and the whisky bottle isn't even open. Didn't mean to write my response as a reply to your quote, which is why it probably seems odd to you. Sorry, my friend. My bad.

Harry Lime

I will hate to read your reply to my quotes once you hit that bottle! lol..
I totally agree with your sentiments.

 

[MK]

.

To be fair....Dusty has been here for quite a while. During that time he has been a good member and has a fantastic collection of vintage hats. It is only recently that has had these intense outbursts to defend Bob. I don't know what that is all about, but my hope is he will get over it.

BTW: the man is not what has been suggested. He is a former Blue Angel. You don't get that distinction if you are a loser.

 

[maintcoder]

Support for MK and the bartenders

I missed the exchange that brought about a member's banishment, but I support wholeheartedly the efforts of MK and the bartenders to maintain the peace here in the Fedora Lounge. It is always a tough call to reprimand or banish members, but when out of line the call must be made. I am one of those who found this site through a google search on 'fedora' while looking for my first hat, found the information I was looking for here and also found the denizens pleasant and helpful, which influenced my decision to participate. If I had found the information but viewed numerous negative exchanges, I would have simply moved on.

So thanks to MK and the bartenders for making the Fedora Lounge as positive an experience as possible for all, sometimes having to make difficult decisions to support the overall desire of the site.

 

[Nathan Flowers]

To be fair....Dusty has been here for quite a while. During that time he has been a good member and has a fantastic collection of vintage hats. It is only recently that has had these intense outbursts to defend Bob. I don't know what that is all about, but my hope is he will get over it.

BTW: the man is not what has been suggested. He is a former Blue Angel. You don't get that distinction if you are a loser.

Yes, I hope everybody realizes that I personally hold no hard feelings against Dusty, as up till yesterday he was a productive member that got along with everybody. I hope we can just put it behind us.

 

[Lincsong]

What the heck,

I stumbled along here a couple months ago. Said my piece on some subjects, got deleted a couple times. Big Deal. I don't agree with everyone and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Yeah, there's rules of decorum, but talking shop is just how some people talk. Biltmore Bob was a guy who posted like you were talking to him face to face. So he said he'd no one better mess with his hat? Used slang about WW II. Ever watch McHale's Navy? They say the same thing. The whole thing is a never ending story.
:cheers1:

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Still am productive Zohar

All you do is lock down threads on occasion and wet your britches when someone mentions they're from your home state. And your point is?
Dusty

 

[varga49]

Look at some of those who have defended Bob - and I mean you specifically Dusty Rhodes. Another bullying, cowardly cretin. Flexing muscles on the internet. What possible interest this person holds in hats, films, etc is dubious. He seems to have come here because he heard it was a great place to "screw being PC" and get a few things off his chest. To him old hats = old ideas= good ol' boys sayin' what's gotta be said. BS. I picture a dumpy, angry little man gone to seed, whisky bottle at his side, angrily mis-typing his hateful syntax, secure in his knowledge he'll never actually meet or be seen by the cyber-liberals he threatens. He too should be banned. I would PM him but he won't take them. He demands it be said publicly. So I do so here. Which I'm am sure will prompt the threat of a "virtual ass whooping" from said creep. Or a question about my politics or patriotism, religion, sexuality, etc. Whatever - if this it what it takes to spray a little "A-Hole Be Gone" it's worth it.

We all have a little voice in our heads that let's us know what's right and wrong. Let's listen to it. And let's support the owner of the place we want to frequent when he makes a decision. Particularly when it's a decision about keeping the peace. Anything less will lead to the eventual demise and departure of the entire FL. And that would be a shame.

Harry Lime

You sound kind of caustic harry..why is that? For the record I think that suspending BB was unfair,and the new policies regarding new persons' a knee jerk reaction. After reading the last few day's postings it seems like knee jerk reactions have par for the course!