Matt Deckard
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Although Kerry will fight it out til the bitter end in regards to count, Bush looks to have it.
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Hmmmm... looks like Bush.
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Renderking Fisk
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Bush didn’t win… Kerry lost because of who he was and what he stood for. Or didn’t stand for. Bush had the stack against him and he still won, not because he's a great President, but because Kerry didn't "click" well with middle America.
He ALIENATED middle America.
Arrogance killed Kerry. Dirty Tricks played by the Kerry Supporters Killed Kerry. International Involvement killed Kerry. The far left killed Kerry's chances of winning this election. Micheal Moore’s bad attitude and his make-believe F-9/11 killed Kerry. Move-On.org and Salon.com killed Kerry…
They all have something in common, they had a case against Bush based on hate and rhetoric that was false. People don’t’ like to be lied to and be told that their leader is a jerk.
Kerry cared more about gaymarriage, government hand-outs to those who won’t work… he clearly cared more about what the elites in Europe thought of him then what the voters thought of him.
I spent the day campaining for Bush and the Republican party… I’ve spoken to more then 100 people yesterday and the Bush Supporters all had something at least one thing common, they all knew Kerry was going to neglect them in favor of the golbalists.
He ALIENATED middle America.
Arrogance killed Kerry. Dirty Tricks played by the Kerry Supporters Killed Kerry. International Involvement killed Kerry. The far left killed Kerry's chances of winning this election. Micheal Moore’s bad attitude and his make-believe F-9/11 killed Kerry. Move-On.org and Salon.com killed Kerry…
They all have something in common, they had a case against Bush based on hate and rhetoric that was false. People don’t’ like to be lied to and be told that their leader is a jerk.
Kerry cared more about gaymarriage, government hand-outs to those who won’t work… he clearly cared more about what the elites in Europe thought of him then what the voters thought of him.
I spent the day campaining for Bush and the Republican party… I’ve spoken to more then 100 people yesterday and the Bush Supporters all had something at least one thing common, they all knew Kerry was going to neglect them in favor of the golbalists.
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Well, Kerry called and conceded so it is all over. The little skunk lawyers can do all they want but the result is going to be the same now. We, the people, won.
Regards to all,
Justin
Regards to all,
Justin
MDFrench
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That is why we need to get behind our third parties. In every election since I've been voting, the Libertarian Party has been gaining votes and access to more ballots. For those who feel that Bush is not conservative enough, there is also the Constitution Party. They also have been gaining ground. We need to send a message to the two parties that we, the American People, need more choices. The lesser of two evils is still evil.
FWIW, even most "real" third party supports don't consider Ralph Nader a real choice.
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I can't agree with you, Fisk. The President won big time. There was a huge voter turn out and Bush won both the Popular and the Electoral votes. The liberal messiah Bill Clinton never won the popular vote.
You are quite the downer these days, French. I hate to break this to you but the Earth has always been in a tough place. It's a dangerous world out there and always will be. Get yourself laid, pal.
You are quite the downer these days, French. I hate to break this to you but the Earth has always been in a tough place. It's a dangerous world out there and always will be. Get yourself laid, pal.
MDFrench
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Renderking Fisk
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Edge, this is one of those times whre we might agree for different reasons.
Which fact is more true: Dubya fought the good fight and won on his own merit, or Kerry was such an incredible asp and alienated Average Americans so badly that he motivated people against his cause?
Is it possible that because of the high numbers, BOTH are true and were equal factors?
I’m not kidding when I say this, here in Rindge, New Hampshire (Bush won this town by a few hundred votes) Central Massachusettes, and with the people I chat with on-line; Kerry went from someone people could live with if he won the White House to “I hate that slimmy ba***rd, I want to see him die!� He went from being exceptible to a candidate folks LOVED to hate.
Kerry might have also suffered from the back lash of 4 years of “Bush was slected, not ellected�, “The village of Crawford, Texas is missing it’s idiot� and other villification of their President. I’ll say it again… people do not like being told they’re an embarrasment because of their President and who they voted for. When provolked they’ll strike back.
Kerry’s supporters also made a case of why the man himself isn’t fit to be in the White House, on Election Day there was news of the Campain headquarters for Dubya were trashed, Republican “Get Out The Vote� vans had tires were slashed and Dubya signs were vandilized. Kerry may not be directly responsible for these acts, but his rhetoric and body language didn’t help. Because of these acts against Dubya, The people I know were modivated even more so to vote and bring others to the polls.
I can make the argument that Kerry, his supporters and the elite media lost the election just as much as George won because he spoke to his base and motivated people like me to campain for him.
Yes, Dubya won huge on merit… but Kerry also lost very badly on his own merit, too.
Which fact is more true: Dubya fought the good fight and won on his own merit, or Kerry was such an incredible asp and alienated Average Americans so badly that he motivated people against his cause?
Is it possible that because of the high numbers, BOTH are true and were equal factors?
I’m not kidding when I say this, here in Rindge, New Hampshire (Bush won this town by a few hundred votes) Central Massachusettes, and with the people I chat with on-line; Kerry went from someone people could live with if he won the White House to “I hate that slimmy ba***rd, I want to see him die!� He went from being exceptible to a candidate folks LOVED to hate.
Kerry might have also suffered from the back lash of 4 years of “Bush was slected, not ellected�, “The village of Crawford, Texas is missing it’s idiot� and other villification of their President. I’ll say it again… people do not like being told they’re an embarrasment because of their President and who they voted for. When provolked they’ll strike back.
Kerry’s supporters also made a case of why the man himself isn’t fit to be in the White House, on Election Day there was news of the Campain headquarters for Dubya were trashed, Republican “Get Out The Vote� vans had tires were slashed and Dubya signs were vandilized. Kerry may not be directly responsible for these acts, but his rhetoric and body language didn’t help. Because of these acts against Dubya, The people I know were modivated even more so to vote and bring others to the polls.
I can make the argument that Kerry, his supporters and the elite media lost the election just as much as George won because he spoke to his base and motivated people like me to campain for him.
Yes, Dubya won huge on merit… but Kerry also lost very badly on his own merit, too.
Renderking Fisk
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George Soros, Michael Moore, Babs Streisand, and all the protestors that marched on New York... I think of all that crap and I can imagine there being a tag-line at the end: "I'm George Bush, and I approved of this message."
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A couple of things during this election got me pretty rankled and they ended up having the reverse effect that the originators had hoped.
I think that european nations informing us who we should vote for also contributed to the election of Bush. To have British citizens write U.S. citizens in Ohio to vote for Kerry didn't sit well with folks. Also, Osama's tape also added votes to Bush. The fact that he would say basically vote for Kerry and you'll be safe from us (terrorists) was a boost. I know when I heard the tape, my reaction was "Oh yeah?" Well Osama, Bush has been re-elected. Now what? God forbid that any attacks occur, but if Osama does attempt something, he's gonna be in a world of hurt.
edit - By the way, my niece informed me a few months ago that if Bush won, she and her husband were moving to Canada. Guess I ought to go over this weekend and help them pack.
I think that european nations informing us who we should vote for also contributed to the election of Bush. To have British citizens write U.S. citizens in Ohio to vote for Kerry didn't sit well with folks. Also, Osama's tape also added votes to Bush. The fact that he would say basically vote for Kerry and you'll be safe from us (terrorists) was a boost. I know when I heard the tape, my reaction was "Oh yeah?" Well Osama, Bush has been re-elected. Now what? God forbid that any attacks occur, but if Osama does attempt something, he's gonna be in a world of hurt.
edit - By the way, my niece informed me a few months ago that if Bush won, she and her husband were moving to Canada. Guess I ought to go over this weekend and help them pack.
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I am pleased Bush won, I won't lie. Kerry scared me. It seemed like he was simply saying what he thought certain people wanted to hear (as Edge said, the European Elites). Quite simply, I think Kerry would not have made a good president. There would be far too much indecicivnes...But what do I know? I'm just a Canuckistani
In all seriousness, again as Edge said, the People won. That's the bottom line.
I saw an interview with Nader about 2 weeks ago, and I think we need more politicians like him for this reason (I don't agree with his politics, but I hope you'll see what I mean here
Interviewer: A lot of the Democrats are saying that you should drop out of the race because you are stealing their votes. What do you say to that?
Nader: Well, sir, Last I checked we were supposed to EARN votes, not OWN them.
Damn straight.
Regards,
Farn
In all seriousness, again as Edge said, the People won. That's the bottom line.
I saw an interview with Nader about 2 weeks ago, and I think we need more politicians like him for this reason (I don't agree with his politics, but I hope you'll see what I mean here
Interviewer: A lot of the Democrats are saying that you should drop out of the race because you are stealing their votes. What do you say to that?
Nader: Well, sir, Last I checked we were supposed to EARN votes, not OWN them.
Damn straight.
Regards,
Farn
Bogie1943
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My two cents.
I am a Bush supporter and a Republican and as can be expected I am very pleased with outcome of this election. Throughout this campaign I have had little respect for John Kerry, for his views, and so forth. I am not going to make this long political message nor do I intend to piss anyone off with my views. However, I was impressed with Kerry graciously conceding the race with dignity and respect. I can go on from here to express what I feel about the 2000 election, however I feel that expressing that opinion is not appropriate nor is it needed. Like the President and Sen. Kerry I feel that it is a time for us all to unit for the sake of our families, our lives, and our country. It will be a long and difficult road, but I feel that we are living in an amazing and not terrible time. We now have a choice to either, stay divided, or set aside are petty differences of opinion and unit to make a stronger America. I may not agree with the views of a Democrat, I may not want him in office, I may be a right wing nut job, but no matter what I am still an American and so is that Democrat, we are all Americans no matter what. I know we have all heard this speech before, but it is the bottom line of truth, we must unit and work together for a stronger America. We don't have to agree when it comes to our views, but there is always a middle ground, and together we can reach that middle ground. Like the old song says "We shall over come" and we shall if we are able to put aside the differences and some times hatreds and think of our future. I want to see America become a stronger, more united, and safer country. I stand beside our mission of freedom, no matter where it takes us. Spreading freedom throughout the world is an incredible ideal. We, as Americans, should all recognize that, that sometimes you have to take action to stop a tragedy from happening. Sometimes you have to take action to make life better for other people. Sometimes you have to step back and say ya know, things have been worse. No matter what others may think, I feel there is a bright future for this country and the world. If we continue to spread freedom we cannot only unit ourselves but the world. You may say this is rubbish, you may say war is a no, no matter what. However, I feel that we have made history on that November 2nd. I know some say times are bad, people out of work, the economy down, and that it is all at Bush's fault. You can agree and disagree, my views are obvious being a Bush supporter. But after this election, I think that we are at the threshold of a new era. A new era of great possibilities and a great era of new struggles. We have great deal to over come not only here in American and over seas. I stand by our President and am proud of it, I know in my heart he is the man for the job, I have done my research, looked over all the views and facts. So, I stand by my vote for President Bush, in my eyes he is the man for the job. John Kerry, was just not strong enough in my eyes or in my heart to be the leader of the free world. But now after it is all over I found new respect for the man as a person. I may not agree with his views of the world and the way things are run. However, I am ready to get toward making this country better in any way I can. I am citizen of the United States of America, I am a Republican, I am a Patriot, I am a Bush supporter, but most of all I am a proud American. That is very fabric that binds us all. Thank you and God Bless America.
I am a Bush supporter and a Republican and as can be expected I am very pleased with outcome of this election. Throughout this campaign I have had little respect for John Kerry, for his views, and so forth. I am not going to make this long political message nor do I intend to piss anyone off with my views. However, I was impressed with Kerry graciously conceding the race with dignity and respect. I can go on from here to express what I feel about the 2000 election, however I feel that expressing that opinion is not appropriate nor is it needed. Like the President and Sen. Kerry I feel that it is a time for us all to unit for the sake of our families, our lives, and our country. It will be a long and difficult road, but I feel that we are living in an amazing and not terrible time. We now have a choice to either, stay divided, or set aside are petty differences of opinion and unit to make a stronger America. I may not agree with the views of a Democrat, I may not want him in office, I may be a right wing nut job, but no matter what I am still an American and so is that Democrat, we are all Americans no matter what. I know we have all heard this speech before, but it is the bottom line of truth, we must unit and work together for a stronger America. We don't have to agree when it comes to our views, but there is always a middle ground, and together we can reach that middle ground. Like the old song says "We shall over come" and we shall if we are able to put aside the differences and some times hatreds and think of our future. I want to see America become a stronger, more united, and safer country. I stand beside our mission of freedom, no matter where it takes us. Spreading freedom throughout the world is an incredible ideal. We, as Americans, should all recognize that, that sometimes you have to take action to stop a tragedy from happening. Sometimes you have to take action to make life better for other people. Sometimes you have to step back and say ya know, things have been worse. No matter what others may think, I feel there is a bright future for this country and the world. If we continue to spread freedom we cannot only unit ourselves but the world. You may say this is rubbish, you may say war is a no, no matter what. However, I feel that we have made history on that November 2nd. I know some say times are bad, people out of work, the economy down, and that it is all at Bush's fault. You can agree and disagree, my views are obvious being a Bush supporter. But after this election, I think that we are at the threshold of a new era. A new era of great possibilities and a great era of new struggles. We have great deal to over come not only here in American and over seas. I stand by our President and am proud of it, I know in my heart he is the man for the job, I have done my research, looked over all the views and facts. So, I stand by my vote for President Bush, in my eyes he is the man for the job. John Kerry, was just not strong enough in my eyes or in my heart to be the leader of the free world. But now after it is all over I found new respect for the man as a person. I may not agree with his views of the world and the way things are run. However, I am ready to get toward making this country better in any way I can. I am citizen of the United States of America, I am a Republican, I am a Patriot, I am a Bush supporter, but most of all I am a proud American. That is very fabric that binds us all. Thank you and God Bless America.
Sergei
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Well said Josh!
I second that. Very well said, Josh.
However! (Yes, I always have a 'however.') I don't want him being overly cooperative with the opposition. While I'm not totally against uniting the partisan factions I do want to see the President continue to take and enhance his aggressive posture in regards to the his mandate and vision. I didn't vote for him so he could bend over backwards for Ted Kennedy and his ilk.
Just because Republicans won this battle doesn't mean we can sit back and relax. Now is the time to use our Executive and Legislative power to the fullest. Not too mention judicial appointments. OOooo, I'm getting chills.
However! (Yes, I always have a 'however.') I don't want him being overly cooperative with the opposition. While I'm not totally against uniting the partisan factions I do want to see the President continue to take and enhance his aggressive posture in regards to the his mandate and vision. I didn't vote for him so he could bend over backwards for Ted Kennedy and his ilk.
Just because Republicans won this battle doesn't mean we can sit back and relax. Now is the time to use our Executive and Legislative power to the fullest. Not too mention judicial appointments. OOooo, I'm getting chills.
ITG
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Kyle, the great thing about this country is we can express our opinions which is what MFrench was doing as were you, but how we express our opinions says alot about ourselves and your comment, Kyle, just told me alot. Yes, I feel the need to call you on this. MFrench did not deserve that kind of outlash.
BellyTank
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Hello-
I have been reading your posts and am interested by the sentiments contained therein. I am not an American, I am not a �European�, although I live in Europe by choice and I am definitely not anti-American. I would like to live in America some day- many of my interests lay in America and modern American culture.
But- does the average American really not care what the rest of the world thinks about America? Specifically, the present politics of America? If not, that is truly sad- where then, does that put America in the world?
Why is America/The President so often referred to as “Leader of The Free World�?
Is that “World� like in “The World Series� or is it referring to the actual World?
Sure, America is a dynamo and a military might, but what is America really doing to lead the “Free World�?
A lot of America’s foreign policy seems so disagreeable to “The World�. Not leading by example surely. It seems from out here in the World that many Americans think of their great nation AS “The World� and don’t care so much how America impacts on the “rest of The World�. And as for Democracy, it seems that it is somehow diminished when you have the “if you’re not for it, you’re against US, un-American, Good vs. Evil� mentality. Has this seemingly unquestioning “patriotism� blinkered Americans to “The World� and America’s standing in it? In one way it seems highly defensive.
Is “The World� then, against the USA- evil, the enemy
To label me a “European Liberal� and dismiss me, would be missing my point and rather rude.
I am just making some observations and posing some questions from a distance, another point of view- and asking for you reflections- I’m not here to agitate, so don’t take it that way.
I’m just astounded by the current sentiment, as are man
I live in the same World you do-
I hope…
BTank.
I have been reading your posts and am interested by the sentiments contained therein. I am not an American, I am not a �European�, although I live in Europe by choice and I am definitely not anti-American. I would like to live in America some day- many of my interests lay in America and modern American culture.
But- does the average American really not care what the rest of the world thinks about America? Specifically, the present politics of America? If not, that is truly sad- where then, does that put America in the world?
Why is America/The President so often referred to as “Leader of The Free World�?
Is that “World� like in “The World Series� or is it referring to the actual World?
Sure, America is a dynamo and a military might, but what is America really doing to lead the “Free World�?
A lot of America’s foreign policy seems so disagreeable to “The World�. Not leading by example surely. It seems from out here in the World that many Americans think of their great nation AS “The World� and don’t care so much how America impacts on the “rest of The World�. And as for Democracy, it seems that it is somehow diminished when you have the “if you’re not for it, you’re against US, un-American, Good vs. Evil� mentality. Has this seemingly unquestioning “patriotism� blinkered Americans to “The World� and America’s standing in it? In one way it seems highly defensive.
Is “The World� then, against the USA- evil, the enemy
To label me a “European Liberal� and dismiss me, would be missing my point and rather rude.
I am just making some observations and posing some questions from a distance, another point of view- and asking for you reflections- I’m not here to agitate, so don’t take it that way.
I’m just astounded by the current sentiment, as are man
I live in the same World you do-
I hope…
BTank.
Matt Deckard
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It is sad to say Bellytank, though the truth of the matter is that many Americans don't know what is going on outside the US, and don't really care unless something drastic happens like a war or high oil prices. Even with the war we can watch CNN show footage of car bombings and refugees fleeing countries, though if you ask the man on the street where the refugees are from or when the car bombing happend the answer would be "I have no clue".
I tend to lean toward CNBC World and the BBC for news around the word because our TV networks are as detached as the the public when it comes to world concerns.
I also think that many American's are seen as rude when they go overseas because they refuse to adhere to customes that are commonplace when overseas. I went to France a couple of years back and had a fantastic time... I tried to fit in. When I ran into others from the US, they were excited about the landscape, though disenchanted by the way they though they were treated while outside the US. They failed to realize that the problem wasn't that they were from the US, the problem was that they did not want to comprehend the culture of the nation they were in. People are different everywhere. If you go into the taj mahal wearing your shoes you should expect to be treated differently. If you go to the wild west in a morning coat and top hat expect no respect!
I tend to lean toward CNBC World and the BBC for news around the word because our TV networks are as detached as the the public when it comes to world concerns.
I also think that many American's are seen as rude when they go overseas because they refuse to adhere to customes that are commonplace when overseas. I went to France a couple of years back and had a fantastic time... I tried to fit in. When I ran into others from the US, they were excited about the landscape, though disenchanted by the way they though they were treated while outside the US. They failed to realize that the problem wasn't that they were from the US, the problem was that they did not want to comprehend the culture of the nation they were in. People are different everywhere. If you go into the taj mahal wearing your shoes you should expect to be treated differently. If you go to the wild west in a morning coat and top hat expect no respect!
I'm Sorry you feel that way, Holly. This board may be a bit too sensitive for my tastes.
BellyTank,
Speaking only for myself as an American citizen, No, I don't care one bit what the world thinks of the USA. This Country goes above and beyond helping this world. We have the strictest environmental regulations, we engage in by far the most humanitarian and nation building efforts around the globe even when there is no self-interest involved, our soldiers have fought and died to save the world numerous times from fascists, communists and other vicious dictators, we allow just about anybody and everybody who wants to live here inside our borders, the world has benefited enormously from our breakthroughs in research and development of inventions and medical cures. Every single European lives a better life because of the existence of the United States. Yet we are still despised there.
What has Europe done for the world besides try and conquer it numerous times? Which nation of our "Global Community" sent money and aid workers to Florida and the other hurricane ravaged states to help with disaster relief? As Saddam Hussein was viciously raping and murdering his starving people many nations were profiting enormously from it with the "Oil for Food" program. Why are so many people in Africa starving and dying of aids while their leadership lives in luxury? If America is such an imperialist nation why have we not conquered Afghanistan and Iraq and made it a U.S. territory? If it was for oil why are we spending our money on building refineries and pipelines there and then paying Iraq for that very same oil?
Instead of the world using the great USA as a scapegoat for their problems they should be looking to change their corrupt leadership and failed forms of government. The USA isn't perfect but nothing run by human beings will ever be perfect. But it is the greatest nation on earth and I wouldn't reside anywhere else.
So, yes, if you are not with us then you are against us. I hope that Europe sees the re-election of President Bush as a big fat middle finger from the American people.
There is a reason why our flag used to state, "Don't tread on me."
BellyTank,
Speaking only for myself as an American citizen, No, I don't care one bit what the world thinks of the USA. This Country goes above and beyond helping this world. We have the strictest environmental regulations, we engage in by far the most humanitarian and nation building efforts around the globe even when there is no self-interest involved, our soldiers have fought and died to save the world numerous times from fascists, communists and other vicious dictators, we allow just about anybody and everybody who wants to live here inside our borders, the world has benefited enormously from our breakthroughs in research and development of inventions and medical cures. Every single European lives a better life because of the existence of the United States. Yet we are still despised there.
What has Europe done for the world besides try and conquer it numerous times? Which nation of our "Global Community" sent money and aid workers to Florida and the other hurricane ravaged states to help with disaster relief? As Saddam Hussein was viciously raping and murdering his starving people many nations were profiting enormously from it with the "Oil for Food" program. Why are so many people in Africa starving and dying of aids while their leadership lives in luxury? If America is such an imperialist nation why have we not conquered Afghanistan and Iraq and made it a U.S. territory? If it was for oil why are we spending our money on building refineries and pipelines there and then paying Iraq for that very same oil?
Instead of the world using the great USA as a scapegoat for their problems they should be looking to change their corrupt leadership and failed forms of government. The USA isn't perfect but nothing run by human beings will ever be perfect. But it is the greatest nation on earth and I wouldn't reside anywhere else.
So, yes, if you are not with us then you are against us. I hope that Europe sees the re-election of President Bush as a big fat middle finger from the American people.
There is a reason why our flag used to state, "Don't tread on me."
