Himel website updated

[handymike]

Sorry guys, but this thread is getting boring- unless @himelator decides to chime in .

 

[Carlos840]

I'd take a more nuanced approach here: what you pay for what you wear says something about who you are. Judgment, that'll happen no matter what. Some are just more polite about keeping their thoughts to themselves.

How does this work?
I bought a chevalier last month, what does that tell you about me?
Nothing!
All you know from that is that i like leather jackets, and that a month ago i had $2250 to spend on one. That's it.

Everything else you think you know is just your opinion and it is meaningless!

 

[handymike]

Carlos looks fantastic in his Himel Jacket. It fits him better than any of his others, and looks the bomb....so what is that worth?

 

[Carlos840]

Carlos looks fantastic in his Himel Jacket. It fits him better than any of his others and looks the bomb....so what is that worth?

To me it is worth $2250, but apparently this makes me vain or an idiot...

 

[handymike]

When you consider what you've invested in all the others- I think not, sir.

 

[Camaro1967]

How does this work?
I bought a chevalier last month, what does that tell you about me?
Nothing!
All you know from that is that i like leather jackets, and that a month ago i had $2250 to spend on one. That's it.

Everything else you think you know is just your opinion and it is meaningless!

You seem to be under the impression that when I said "judgment happens," it would be me doing the judging. Ok, I'll oblige: Honestly, dude, it's a cool jacket. Wear it in good health.

I think the misconception is that when someone has a candid opinion, especially if this opinion disagrees with (or openly challenges the ideas held by) others, it is perceived as unfair judgment or as a personal attack. If it's not possible to discuss why those differences of opinion or interpretation exist, then why even come to a forum in the first place? If an opinion is meaningless, then it shouldn't matter (to you or anyone else) anyway.

 

[Big J]

@Carlos, again you're making claims that you were insulted when you weren't.
Who called you vain?
Who called you an idiot?
I can't find those posts.
This is what I was talking about;
Straw men, indignation, getting offended over imaginary insults.

 

[Carlos840]

You seem to be under the impression that when I said "judgment happens," it would be me doing the judging. Ok, I'll oblige: Honestly, dude, it's a cool jacket. Wear it in good health.

I think the misconception is that when someone has a candid opinion, especially if this opinion disagrees with (or openly challenges the ideas held by) others, it is perceived as unfair judgment or as a personal attack. If it's not possible to discuss why those differences of opinion or interpretation exist, then why even come to a forum in the first place? If an opinion is meaningless, then it shouldn't matter (to you or anyone else) anyway.

You said:

"what you pay for what you wear says something about who you are"

What does the fact i paid $2250 dollars for a chevalier tell you about me? Nothing other than wild guesses.
That's all i mean.
Now, regarding differences of opinions on the product itself, i have no problem with that, we are all entitled to our opinions and this is what this forum is for.

 

[Superfluous]

Superfluous made some interesting comparisons between Himel and some designers' jackets. What I want to do is to ask you lads here, between the Himel Kensington ($2450) and the Goodwear Californian Racer ($1549), which one is better in terms quality? That is almost 1k difference in there.

Good question. IMHO, Good Wear is the closest comparison to Himel in terms of material and craftsmanship. Therefore, while I personally prefer Himel’s Kensington over GW’s Californian Racer, I don’t see a $1,000 difference. The problem is the 4 year wait for a custom GW jacket. Based on simple principles of supply and demand, I personally believe that GW’s jackets are underpriced. Most companies with an excessive demand that they cannot timely accommodate increase prices. If I operated a business with a 4 year wait time, I would increase prices, reduce the wait time by thinning out demand, and still operate at full capacity.

$2 for a prime ribeye would be a great deal. However, if the restaurant had a 7 hour wait for the privilege of buying a $2 ribeye, the deal would be considerably less attractive. I certainly would not wait 7 hours for a $2 ribeye.

I think the misconception is that when someone has a candid opinion, especially if this opinion disagrees with (or openly challenges the ideas held by) others, it is perceived as unfair judgment or as a personal attack.

Divergent opinions are not only appropriate, but necessary and desirable. On the other hand, derogatory statements about people, or groups of people that patronize a particular brand, are not necessary or desirable. I and others believe that some of the posts in this thread have crossed that line. In particular, certain posts transcended mere disagreement over pricing and value, and suggested that people who pay Himel prices are mentally unsound and/or desperately pursuing fashion trends. You may find these suggestions fair game in the context of respectful debate. I disagree. I believe respectful debate about pricing, quality and value – which is very productive and desirable – should not include statements about the personality or psychological disposition of those who disagree. I have no problem with someone stating that Himel’s prices are excessive or constitute a poor value. On the other hand, I do not appreciate posts suggesting that those who patronize Himel (or any other brand) have questionable sanity and/or are beholden to fashion.

At times, these differences may be subtle. At other times, they are quite palpable. To the extent that I personally have erred in terms of being too sensitive about appropriate vs. inappropriate posts, I have already apologized and do so again now. I do not want to chill lively debate. That said, I humbly suggest that certain others reconsider the boundaries of respectful discourse and consider slight adjustments to facilitate a more productive dialogue.

Off to a meeting.

 

[ton312]

Ton, I genuinely respect your above-posted opinion. Why? Because it is based on real world experience, as opposed to hypothetical, theoretical, generalizations. I also appreciate the fact that, when sharing your opinion, you do not label, (mis)characterize or disparage those who view the issues differently. Instead, you respect and embrace our differences. Well done.

I think we can agree that on the whole...we all like pizza. Some like it with a thin crust, some like a pan pizza and others prefer stuffed. We may not like the same toppings or crust but we are all seeking a delicious pizza. The root motivation for each of us is exactly the same. At least from my experience here. I'd also like to note I wasn't knocking the brand. Just my observations from a small sample of off the rack jackets (which were priced under a custom job).

 

[Superfluous]

The root motivation for each of us is exactly the same. At least from my experience here.

Amen! Those who spend more, or less, than the average do not necessarily have different motivations.

 

[red devil]

I'd argue he was workwear-inspired. Nothing wrong with that. But his stuff isn't meant to be treated the same way a Carhartt work jacket would be. I'd still buy his stuff if I could afford it (or, more aptly put, if I was willing to pay the retail price).

That is indeed more accurate, fully agree.

There was a mention of shinki as well, it is indeed more expensive to buy than other horsehides, I think about double the price of Italian horsehides, but don't quote me on that.
The fact that it is the "best leather" is fully debatable and there were many threads about this here.
All I can say is that even professionals are divided on this, including Japanese makers.

 

[Cyber Lip]

$2500 is affordable to most people and isn't insane for a jacket that only gets better with age and that you'll potentially wear for the next 20 years and beyond. Some of you are acting as if it's a pie in the sky outrageously unobtainable amount of money LOL. When you think about the accumulated amount the average person spends over time on jackets that need replacing every couple of years because they either wear out or go out of style. $2500 isn't a bad investment.

 

[Mich486]

$2500 is affordable to most people and isn't insane for a jacket that only gets better with age and that you'll potentially wear for the next 20 years and beyond. Some of you are acting as if it's a pie in the sky outrageously unobtainable amount of money LOL. When you think about the accumulated amount the average person spends over time on jackets that need replacing every couple of years because they either wear out or go out of style. $2500 isn't a bad investment.

I strongly believe that jackets and shoes are those two things where is better to invest a bit more in quality items than go cheap. You can’t say however that $2500 for a jacket is not that much. Come on, it is more than a month salary for many people. You say is going to last for 20yrs... it might be true (I doubt it) but let’s no kid ourselves that we are going to wear the same jackets for 20yrs... that’s not gonna happen almost surely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Superfluous]

IMHO, people should not be spending a month's salary on a leather jacket. That is not prudent.

 

[Guppy]

According to cpi inflation calculator, $2250 in 2018 is equivalent to $216 in 1950 (to pick an arbitrary date). Back then a jacket might have cost $20, I think. But were made in an era when the materials were more common, and were mass produced with economies of scale. For an over built, artisinal homage to the originals, from a boutique maker, made to your measurements, not off-the-rack, I think 10x over inflation isn't unreasonable. At all.

 

[JMax]

I would guess that $2,500 is more than many people’s monthly rent, even mortgages. No way is a jacket that costs that much affordable to most people. We here are blessed, that’s for sure. But I do get your drift.

 

[jacketjunkie]

IMHO, people should not be spending a month's salary on a leather jacket. That is not prudent.

I agree for the most part, however there's exceptions to this (as to pretty much anything). Say you make 10k/month, you could spend 10k on a leather jacket (I would expect that jacket to have jetpacks and laser cannons included though at that price point) as you wouldn't have to worry about going on a dry bread and rice diet for the rest of the month due to the savings you undoubtely have as a person with such income. I totally get your point though.

Funnily enough, my grandfather in fact did spend his first months salary on a leather coat back in 1952(?). 200 Deutsche Mark for one of those fancy mid-length double breasted coats as they were so popular in Germany back in those days. I think my father still has that one in storage. Doesn't fit neither him nor me though.

 

[Superfluous]

According to cpi inflation calculator, $2250 in 2018 is equivalent to $216 in 1950 (to pick an arbitrary date). Back then a jacket might have cost $20, I think. But were made in an era when the materials were more common, and were mass produced with economies of scale. For an over built, artisinal homage to the originals, from a boutique maker, I think 10x over inflation isn't unreasonable. At all.

Interesting comparison and, as you correctly observe, the 1950s jackets were mass products on assembly lines, and were generally of lessor quality than the premier bench made, custom reproductions available today.

 

[Superfluous]

Earlier in this thread, some people took exception with Himel’s reference to “One Good Thing” and associated claims of producing “the finest” jackets. Curious if other brands employ similar marketing approaches, I quickly surveyed a few other websites.

Aero’s website includes the following references:
* “manufacturers of the best and the toughest leather jackets on the planet”
* “the very best”
* “World famous”
* “the finest suede ever produced”

Lost World’s website includes the following references:
* “the best clothing of its kind in the world”
* “markedly better than anything in the current marketplace”
* “mind-blowing craftsmanship”
* “Who needs the best comes to us”
* “World Famous Craftsmanship”

Vanson’s website includes the following references:
* “superior real-world quality and design”
* “the best raw materials”
* “heirloom quality garments” (I like this slogan)

Good Wear’s website is more humble, with an emphasis on fit and authenticity, and little or no “we are the best” proclamations. Kudos JC.

Himel's "One Good Thing" slogan is arguably a bit pretentious, but other manufacturers employ equally self-aggrandizing slogans as part of their marketing campaigns.